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[DISCUSSION] Cheating in VGC & Gamefreak's Failures
#1
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I'm going to preface this discussion by boldly stating that I am not specifically referring to PKHex, Powersaves and genning. This thread is in reference to something much more sinister.

Allegedly, players are able to manipulate their Pokemon on the fly through the use of custom firmware, Cubic Ninja, Freakyforms Deluxe, and other hacking methods. This is capable of being abused in VGC tournaments and players are able to alter their Pokemon between matches. To those who don't play in official tournaments, your team is locked in a Battle Box and are incapable of being removed or changed in any way. It's clear how this gives hackers a massive leg-up on others.

This was discovered shortly before the tournament in London, and the poor solution was to use team sheets as law to "combat" this. Historically, team sheets were never used in an official way. They were simply a list that outlined a competitor's team for commentator use, so a lot of players lazily filled them out without 100% perfection in their reports or with minor mistakes occurring (ex: accidentally listing Protect twice on one Pokemon). Since it was used as law this time around, players were banned over simple human error.

How do you guys feel about this?

Gamefreak has, yet again, failed to cater to its competitive players. If PKHeX has an extensive legality checker, why isn't one implemented at official tournaments? Dream Ball Aegislash is a blatantly impossible combination and yet it managed to slip through their mediocre check. If the EV cap is 510, why isn't it hard capped? The "official" legality checker at tournaments is a joke.

My beef is that GF wants to pretend Pokemon is a legitimately competitive game, but they do nothing to foster this. For many generations, IVs and EVs were kept a secret. Before Gen 6, we had to plug Pokemon's stats into a calculator to guess their possible IV spreads. Breeding has been a nightmare and is incredibly time consuming. It can take ages to get the proper egg moves, natures, abilities, and IVs on a Pokemon due to the element of RNG and the Pokemon might just get scrapped later on because it doesn't make the cut in the testing process. Were it not for Pokemon Showdown, an unofficial battle simulator, I suspect many players wouldn't be engaged in competitive play because the only option you have is to breed forever or gen to test out teams.

Perhaps the hacking culture in Pokemon would change if Gamefreak stepped up and actually took care of its failures.
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#2
Aggreeeeeeeeddddddddd
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#3
This is actually blowing up right now due to @Wolfey's video about cheating in Pokemon Sun Moon. Which can be found here.

I think multiple things need to change. I don't know any technical solutions, because I can't code, but it seems as though all teams should be stored on a server once the box is locked. (or something to that effect)

I love/hate the breeding process. It's probably the most rewarding thing in pokemon (besides an XY 40 chain, ***k yeah *Drools a little, but not too much, just enough to feel it*).

I don't know what I'm saying. I lost my train of thought, but this will most likely be the last "New Gen" on 3DS. I don't doubt one final remake or "SM2" before the end of the 3DS.

So in summary, we probably have 2 seasons left on 3DS so the issue needs to be addressed, but it's too late for this year I think. Also, I'm smart.
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#4
I thought that ban on the 2x protect was a bit too rough, and also as much as they try to concentrate on the in game cheating, what about the screen looking issue? Apperently that has been a real on going issue that hasnt been adressed either, I would really hate to lose to someone cause they where peeking at my screen thats just shows a complete lack of sportsmanship, imo.
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#5
(Dec 15, 2016, 02:25 PM)Gvng Wrote: I thought that ban on the 2x protect was a bit too rough, and also as much as they try to concentrate on the in game cheating, what about the screen looking issue? Apperently that has been a real on going issue that hasnt been adressed either, I would really hate to lose to someone cause they where peeking at my screen thats just shows a complete lack of sportsmanship, imo.

Yeah the double protect ban was weird. But at the same time now that we know boxes can be changed, that technically gives the person the ability to use that slot for any move then say "oops i didn't mean to write it down twice"
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#6
@Justin I see now how that might be an issue, its sad to see people try and be so conniving, it makes humble and hard working players not even want to take part in those events cause they know that theres people out there that dont have any concerns about the rules.
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#7
(Dec 15, 2016, 02:34 PM)Gvng Wrote: @Justin I see now how that might be an issue, its sad to see people try and be so conniving, it makes humble and hard working players not even want to take part in those events cause they know that theres people out there that dont have any concerns about the rules.

I'd be more worried about screen peeking than someone switching up their PC box.
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#8
I don't care about screen peeking so much. If there is a best of 3, everyone's going to know what's going down by game 2. Being able to change say... a Speed IV to outspeed something one day, then have the speed completely different on another is srsly messed up however. Hearing another persons idk... wishiwashi outsped X means this hax can be used to outspeed that Wishiwashi when they otherwise wouldn't. I don't like the sounds of this.

Small solution: Write down all moves, make sure the players 100% understand that writing in: move, move, protect, protec, is grounds for forfeit, and write all of the pokemon's stats down. If your poke has 299 speed one match, then is found to have 328 the next, boom, gone, gg no re, game over man, bucket kicked, daisies pushed, frogs croaked. Small solution, should take 5 minutes to do. No one outside of the tournament organisers, judges, and announcers will be able to see this. EZ PZ. But what do I know, I'm just a hydreidevoir.
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#9
I love playing VGC format, but they are failing year after year after year to make easy things in the right way, the main reason being we have no voice, the game is not supported in any way after the release and they leave players deal with the mistakes they have made, such as the new timer system (it is so good that during the first official event the judges had orders to intervene to stop a match after a certain time.. and this Sudden Death thing they came up with too lol.. the 15min timer was fine and it only had to be implemented in Battle Spot too, it would have been perfect) and the badly secured team locking system that now we have, which apparently forces players from all over the world to manually write with a pen in a perfect English the exact team sheet, and if you write Protect for 2 times the staff doesn't think it is an oversight, no.. your pokemon is clearly hacked.

In the end they add 3 problems for everytime they solve 1. Historically speaking, Japanese game companies clearly don't know how to behave in front of the words "competitive" and "balanced" and this is a matter of fact.
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#10
Pokémon wasn't initially released to be a balanced and competitive game. Sure there were player battles, but I don't think the intention was to have a tournament circuit. Now, the players demanded it, and that's cool that Gamefreak tries to cater to that population, however, they're not a company that has ever had eSports titles before. So, while a major mistake is inexcusable, I think as a player base we should still be patient.

As for the cheating thing, all games have cheaters, especially if there is money on the line. This is life. There's cheating in CS:GO, there was cheating in CoD 4, you name it. Wherever there's money involved, people will cheat to earn it. Heck, even active sports such as professional baseball has cheaters (ie. Doping). You learn how the cheating is done and you work on stopping it. For screen peaking, maybe the IR system gets scrapped and players sit in booths and play over WiFi (there are issues in this suggestion, I know.) For multi day tournaments, start firmware checking 3DS and 2DS systems. Also, random mid-tournament team checks and hardware checks need to happen too, not just at the beginning of each day. And it sounds like the anti-cheat system could use some beefing.
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