[DISCUSSION] (somewhat) monthly sm ou metagame update

[Kris]

@Spyro190 Bro you like, didn't even answer the question.

[Spyro190]

(Nov 29, 2017, 09:38 AM)Kris Wrote: @Spyro190 Bro you like, didn't even answer the question.

Wat

[croissant]

(Nov 29, 2017, 06:04 AM)Spyro190 Wrote: 0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 159-187 (46.6 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (84.9 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.1 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

@Spyro190 i assumed you would know this since you seem to have a much better understanding of the meta than me, but here's a news flash: life orb latios is not a very good set anymore. idk if you have been playing oras instead of sun moon, but latios pretty much only runs scarf and z moves (and like soul dew on some cm sets), because life orb aoa is just easily walled and calm mind would much rather run psychium z to have a solid nuke or soul dew to not get worn down and sweep more easily. so yeah i dont know why you are posting those calcs since life orb latios is pretty mediocre, i wouldve thought you would know. the calcs should instead look like this:

4 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 124-146 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO (obviously a guaranteed 2hko after rocks)

furthermore, unlike regular latios, mlatios was able to not only be able to 2hko av ttar (since the post was made during naganadel meta) after some chip, but was able to switch out and live pursuit 100% of the time, two things regular latios can't do.

60 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (80 bp because of switching out)
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

60 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (same deal)
0 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 122-144 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

yeah sure, mega latios isn't the best pokemon at all, i'll be the first to say it, but saying that its complete garbage and trying to support this by giving out calcs with subpar sets is a bit weird to me lol. anyways it has seen success even in tours with players like abr using it, so if you really want to keep saying its the worst mon of all time and thinking everyone is wrong, then idk what to say.

(Nov 29, 2017, 06:04 AM)Spyro190 Wrote: i'll gladly accept answers to my posts, but uninformed and useless ones are a bit irritating.

well that's pretty rich coming from the guy who is using bad calcs to support an argument and ignored half of my post (where did that "stakataka is horrible" agrument go???)

this thread became pretty toxic and i won't engage in this discussion furthermore because its just getting annoying for me and for people reading and also derailed the whole thread, and i suggest you do the same. but if you really feel the need to "win" this argument on a pokemon forum of all things (lol) and keep posting, then have fun. have a nice day

[Spyro190]

(Nov 29, 2017, 02:36 PM)yung lord Wrote:

(Nov 29, 2017, 06:04 AM)Spyro190 Wrote: 0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 159-187 (46.6 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-390 (84.9 - 101%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 344-408 (89.1 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

@Spyro190 i assumed you would know this since you seem to have a much better understanding of the meta than me, but here's a news flash: life orb latios is not a very good set anymore. idk if you have been playing oras instead of sun moon, but latios pretty much only runs scarf and z moves (and like soul dew on some cm sets), because life orb aoa is just easily walled and calm mind would much rather run psychium z to have a solid nuke or soul dew to not get worn down and sweep more easily. so yeah i dont know why you are posting those calcs since life orb latios is pretty mediocre, i wouldve thought you would know. the calcs should instead look like this:

4 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 124-146 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO (obviously a guaranteed 2hko after rocks)

furthermore, unlike regular latios, mlatios was able to not only be able to 2hko av ttar (since the post was made during naganadel meta) after some chip, but was able to switch out and live pursuit 100% of the time, two things regular latios can't do.

60 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 234-276 (77.7 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (80 bp because of switching out)
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 168-198 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

60 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (same deal)
0 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 122-144 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

yeah sure, mega latios isn't the best pokemon at all, i'll be the first to say it, but saying that its complete garbage and trying to support this by giving out calcs with subpar sets is a bit weird to me lol. anyways it has seen success even in tours with players like abr using it, so if you really want to keep saying its the worst mon of all time and thinking everyone is wrong, then idk what to say.

Why did you just say "EQ Latios is horrible unless you run a good set"? That's a very dumb statement.

Even if in SM Soul Dew could replace LO if we want to baitkill Heatran and unchoiced Ttar LO is required, that's its niche. Latios' bulk isn't important unless it's OHKOed by regular Pursuit, as switching out isn't needed. Calcs with EQ Latios without LO make no sense.

Yeah sure, LO Latios isn't the best pokemon at all, I'll be the first to say it, but saying that its complete garbage and trying to support this by giving out calcs with subpar sets is a bit weird to me lol. Anyways it has seen success even in tours with players like TDK using it, so if you really want to keep saying its the worst mon of all time and thinking everyone is wrong, then idk what to say.

(Nov 29, 2017, 02:36 PM)yung lord Wrote: well that's pretty rich coming from the guy who is using bad calcs to support an argument and ignored half of my post (where did that "stakataka is horrible" agrument go???)

Were you serious? I thought that you were just pretending not to be able to read what I wrote before.

(Nov 29, 2017, 02:36 PM)yung lord Wrote: this thread became pretty toxic and i won't engage in this discussion furthermore because I can't continue to pretend to be right and also derailed the whole thread, and i suggest you do the same. but if you really feel the need to "win" this argument on a pokemon forum of all things (lol) and keep posting, then have fun. have a nice day

If you aren't interested in others' posts why are you on a forum?

Hand u2. (:

[Kris]

^ Ladies and Gentleman, Smogon ^

[croissant]

@Spyro190 like i said i just don’t wanna derail the thread since we both won’t change opinions and this is just petty at this point but if you want to keep doing some petty arguing feel free to hmu on discord

[Kris]

In other news, although not OU, Kingler now gets Liquidation. Behind Sheer Force and Life Orb, Crabhammer is no longer needed because of it's worse accuracy. But with less power, the SD Kingler set will need to be used. I wonder if Kingler will even see better usage now thanks to this addition of Liquidation. Thoughts?

Also @"yung lord"can I do some petty arguing too?

[croissant]

small update + something i forgot

i'll actually make this a monthly thing because there's not enough stuff happening every week to make good threads.



kartana actually got knock off with the new move tutors and i totally forgot about that. not a super big change but it's pretty cool on the swords dance + darkinium z set because the base power difference between knock off and night slash is minimal and knock off is always useful to remove items. its also fine on scarf since some of the best switch ins to scarftana like celesteela really hate having their leftovers knocked off. i also heard some discussion about choice band kartana being better since knock off is a more spammable move, but i think that if i wanted to wallbreak with kartana i'd run swords dance and not choice band. not a huge change but its still a pretty cool option that i felt was worth mentioning.