(Jan 12, 2015, 02:44 PM)Rogue Wrote: Through that logic me making a bad prediction against someone with a Gogoat is the same as me making a bad prediction against someone with a Arceus.
It's not that Greninja "changes" Pokemon. It's the fact that it limits team building.
Simply telling me that I'm wrong and if you just "out skill" your opponent isn't enough. I need a better reason to why I'm wrong. You said my examples were poor yet you haven't actually given me a reason why Greninja shouldn't have been banned.
I don't want to endlessly argue with anyone. Give me a team that works well against Greninja and works perfectly in an OU environment. Then once you do give me a reason why I HAVE to run that exact team if I want to play OU, and why that's okay, and finally tell me how using that team promotes individuality. /:
1. I'm not arguing. This thread was created to discuss the banning of Greninja. We are discussing just that.
2. Asking me to give you a team just to take down ONE Pokémon is ridiculous and I'm not going to waste my time. Who builds an entire team just to counter one Pokémon? By that logic, if you can't list a team of six Pokémon that all can handle a Venusaur for example, then he should be banned.
3. You said I didn't give you an example as to why I thought you were wrong, but I did. Besides that, I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said anyways.
(Jan 12, 2015, 03:39 PM)Rogue Wrote: Do you play by Smogon rules?
Depends. I used to play nothing but OU, but then I wanted to try something different so I started playing VGC.
And you 100% believe that Greninja is healthy for the OU meta? He doesn't doesn't make certain play styles like Hyper Offense useless, and he doesn't over centralize the meta: Making you run things you normally would not?
50 thousand people used to live here...Now it's a ghost town.
(Jan 12, 2015, 03:39 PM)Rogue Wrote: Do you play by Smogon rules?
Depends. I used to play nothing but OU, but then I wanted to try something different so I started playing VGC.
And you 100% believe that Greninja is healthy for the OU meta? He doesn't doesn't make certain play styles like Hyper Offense useless, and he doesn't over centralize the meta: Making you run things you normally would not?
Maybe I'm different from the majority of people, but when I play OU I use the Pokémon that I want to use. Greninja, or any Pokémon for that matter, doesn't change that. I've never had a lot of difficulty facing Greninja. It's versatile and fast, but it's frail.
I don't really get why people get mad at smogon. They are just trying to come up with an enviorment that people can use the pokemon they want without being wrecked or being obligated to use certain pokemon to counter the "OP" ones. If you don't like it, go and play by different rules. VGC for example. If people came up with greninja, for sure they will come up with new things in the future, so it is not the end guys. Just play the game you love and be happy.
I'd LOVE to add my 2 cents. Keep in mind that I am primarily a doubles player, but I play Singles every once in a while, and it was what I used to primarily play, which was around Gen 4. I also have IRL friends that play Singles a lot.
So far, in Gen 6, I agree with EVERY ban that Smogon has made. Although Aegislash is a bit iffy. But someone feel free to cue me in.
Smogon is not there to tell the Pokemon Company/Game Freak that they know their game and how to balance things better than they do. (It's not much of Game Freak's job, since their official tournaments are doubles anyways.) They are there to make battle experiences for players of all skill levels as enjoyable and less-frustrating as possible. They help me build a team I want to build without much need to improvise if there is a common threat abound. They sure as heck do a better job than Game Freak. Why the heck for most of XY did I have to build 2, repeat, TWO, Pokemon on my team of 6 to counter a single Pokemon, just because I didn't want to lose? And how come after over 70% of people used her on her team during Nationals, all they said was, "Oh, it's a good Pokemon." Kangaskhan was an interesting Pokemon, until Game Freak made its most memorable feature be how broken it was, and made it the only thing I could think about when playing Doubles.
You want to know why Smogon is a thing? And do you want to know why Singles is played more than Doubles? Because Smogon is trying to help new people get into Pokemon and keep old people in by removing high-level threats from their minds. And all Game Freak does is say, "Oh, this Legendary's stats are super high. It's going to be an issue. Let's ban it." Why are not-as-good Legendaries like [Hollow] Kyruem, Meloetta, Keldeo, Celebit, and Zygarde blindly banned, but overused, overpowered, and broken Pokemon Mawile and Kangaskhan not??
I almost quit VGC altogether when they announced that the ORAS format would be anything- oh, except those special Legendaries that have super high stats. Not because they're a problem. Otherwise, they would have already banned Mawile, Kangaskhan, Cresselia, and Landorus a LONG time ago. In XY, it was bearable taking care of 2 threats. But now adding in overused things like Cresselia, Thundurus, and Heatran, who are also Legendaries means all of my Pokemon on my team need to be checks to the most-used things? Not to mention they're a lot better in Doubles than in Singles...
I've played against just about everything. And because of that, I know that Smogon does a fantastic job keeping the experience as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible. They are NOT going to please everyone. But they sure do please more people than the staff at Game Freak who don't quite balance things as well as they should. Otherwise, they would have a lot more players showing up at competitions than they do now.
My rant might seem a bit off-topic, but I had to type this eventually, and seeing this topic along with the people who disagree with the ban put me in the kind of mood to finally write off my opinion. When I first saw this topic, I was like, "What? Really?" But then I read on and saw how important and logical this ban was. Every ban has its reasons. And ultimately, Pokemon battling is fun. And Smogon desperately tries to make things fun for Pokemon fans.
By the way, if anyone still thinks Smogon is filled with a bunch of idiots, look at Ray Rizzo. He won the World Championships 3 years in a row. And before Pokemon leagues and Pokemon-sponsored tournaments existed, he was a part of the Smogon community. He won because he knew what was good, thanks to his Smogon experience. You can't call someone who knows how to predict and counter stupid.
(Jan 13, 2015, 05:55 PM)MagnusHexem Wrote: I'd LOVE to add my 2 cents. Keep in mind that I am primarily a doubles player, but I play Singles every once in a while, and it was what I used to primarily play, which was around Gen 4. I also have IRL friends that play Singles a lot.
So far, in Gen 6, I agree with EVERY ban that Smogon has made. Although Aegislash is a bit iffy. But someone feel free to cue me in.
Smogon is not there to tell the Pokemon Company/Game Freak that they know their game and how to balance things better than they do. (It's not much of Game Freak's job, since their official tournaments are doubles anyways.) They are there to make battle experiences for players of all skill levels as enjoyable and less-frustrating as possible. They help me build a team I want to build without much need to improvise if there is a common threat abound. They sure as heck do a better job than Game Freak. Why the heck for most of XY did I have to build 2, repeat, TWO, Pokemon on my team of 6 to counter a single Pokemon, just because I didn't want to lose? And how come after over 70% of people used her on her team during Nationals, all they said was, "Oh, it's a good Pokemon." Kangaskhan was an interesting Pokemon, until Game Freak made its most memorable feature be how broken it was, and made it the only thing I could think about when playing Doubles.
You want to know why Smogon is a thing? And do you want to know why Singles is played more than Doubles? Because Smogon is trying to help new people get into Pokemon and keep old people in by removing high-level threats from their minds. And all Game Freak does is say, "Oh, this Legendary's stats are super high. It's going to be an issue. Let's ban it." Why are not-as-good Legendaries like [Hollow] Kyruem, Meloetta, Keldeo, Celebit, and Zygarde blindly banned, but overused, overpowered, and broken Pokemon Mawile and Kangaskhan not??
I almost quit VGC altogether when they announced that the ORAS format would be anything- oh, except those special Legendaries that have super high stats. Not because they're a problem. Otherwise, they would have already banned Mawile, Kangaskhan, Cresselia, and Landorus a LONG time ago. In XY, it was bearable taking care of 2 threats. But now adding in overused things like Cresselia, Thundurus, and Heatran, who are also Legendaries means all of my Pokemon on my team need to be checks to the most-used things? Not to mention they're a lot better in Doubles than in Singles...
I've played against just about everything. And because of that, I know that Smogon does a fantastic job keeping the experience as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible. They are NOT going to please everyone. But they sure do please more people than the staff at Game Freak who don't quite balance things as well as they should. Otherwise, they would have a lot more players showing up at competitions than they do now.
My rant might seem a bit off-topic, but I had to type this eventually, and seeing this topic along with the people who disagree with the ban put me in the kind of mood to finally write off my opinion. When I first saw this topic, I was like, "What? Really?" But then I read on and saw how important and logical this ban was. Every ban has its reasons. And ultimately, Pokemon battling is fun. And Smogon desperately tries to make things fun for Pokemon fans.
By the way, if anyone still thinks Smogon is filled with a bunch of idiots, look at Ray Rizzo. He won the World Championships 3 years in a row. And before Pokemon leagues and Pokemon-sponsored tournaments existed, he was a part of the Smogon community. He won because he knew what was good, thanks to his Smogon experience. You can't call someone who knows how to predict and counter stupid.
50 thousand people used to live here...Now it's a ghost town.
![[Image: rmRrLcr.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/rmRrLcr.gif)
