Share:    Facebook Facebook Reddit

[RATE MY TEAM] My first VGC 2016 team
Hi there. This is actually just my second team overall, and the first on VGC 2016 rules. It's built based on the normal team I use on battle spot. I can't actually run this team, since I have only Pokemon Y, but I made it as an exercice and got some sucess with it in showdown, so I'll show it here:

* * *

So, it's a dual primal. I find it helps a lot in the weather war, and you can aways opt to not bring one or the other to battle, based on the team preview. It's certainly not the definitive strategy, but it's the one I'm more confortable with at the moment. I was really inclined to bring Rayquaza instead of Groundon, because it's great beside Togekiss with delta stream, but decided against it because: 1. I didn't have good responses to steel types, specially Ferrothorn; and 2. It would take my mega slot, and I Mawile is actually the pokemon I built this team around. Kyogre was a must, because my team is actually very weak to fire. Besides, I really like it, so there's that.

[Image: primal_kyogre_by_krokus00-d8a73wr.png]
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 100 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect

[Image: primal_groudon_by_theangryaron-d7hvjdz.png]
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Earth Power
- Fire Punch
- Protect

The movesets are pretty standard. For Kyogre, Water Spout's damage is dependent on health, but it has 100% accuracy, so I like it better than the risk from origin pulse missing. Thunder is 100% accurate under rain, and it's great against other Kyogre. Ice Beam is for an option under the sun. It has some investiment in speed for an extra advantage in mirror matches. Groundon is a physical one. Here I have the risky Precipice Blades, but also have Earth Power for some security.

* * *
[Image: safe_image.php?d=AQCBD0gGfnCEPCCC&w=960&...xt=png2jpg]
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite

Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Rock Slide

It's a fully offencive one, so it's a little risky. I'm still not sure about not having Protect, and it'll take some testing to decide for or against it. Rock Slide is the move that will have to go in that case, but it's good for some coverage, spread damage, and the flinting chance doesn't hurt. The rest is pretty common, with two different STAB moves and Sucker Punch for priority. Some people like to go without it, but it has saved be lot's of times, especially outside of Trick Room. This is exactly the same Mawile from my regular team, but it can afford to be more reckless there, because of some extra support, that I'll explain when talking about Klefki. The idea here is get the most of it's Huge Power ability.

* * *

[Image: cresselia_by_xous54-d3fg0ru.png]
Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 56 SpA / 100 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
- Psychic
- Protect

Cresselia is my first support pokemon. It's great for Trick Room, obvioslly, which makes Mawile really hard to stop. It's a little tricky to use, because of the speedy Kyogre, but with the right timing and team formation, it can almost grant the win. Skill Swap is also great in this format, bacause it can reset the wheater swapping with the primals. It can also save the main attackers from ground moves, by giving them Levitate, or cripple a threat removing it's ability in a crutial moment. Most sets will have Ice Beam, but I like Psychic better in this team, because Dragon types are well confronted, so I can benefit from the STAB and the coverage, specially agains Fighting.

* * *

[Image: togekiss.jpg]
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Follow Me
- Protect

Redirection is the main reason for this pokemon, so Follow Me is the most important move. Initially I was going to run Togetic with Eviolite, which would have almost 50% more defenses, and Flamethrower instead of Air Slash to be another option against Steel, but I decided the extra Sp Atk and the 60% change to flinch was worth it. That's only viable because of Grondon. Tailwind offers another option of speed control besides Trick Room, so I can choose with strategy is better in the team preview or the momemnt of the battle.

* * *
[Image: safe_image.php?d=AQCI0-p_cylJO3yt&w=960&...xt=png2jpg]
Klefki @ Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 240 HP / 108 Def / 160 SpD
Bold Nature
- Crafty Shield
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Light Screen

I considered using Sableye here, going for a dual mega strategy, but decided to tweek Klefki a little instead. My regular team's Klefki has Safeguard instead of Crafty Shield and Light Clay instead of Mental Herb. Safeguard lasts multiple turns, but protect only from status conditions, while Crafty Shield is 1 turn only, but protect against any status move, which is an important distinction, as it includes things like Taunt and Encore. By choosing to keep Klefki, I have no taunt is this team, but Mental Herb solves it by covering Klefki's weakness against faster pranksters, as it protects it from being taunted in the first turn, and Crafty Shield will be active in the second. This move also puts Smeagle's Dark Void in check pretty well. It hurts a little losing the extra turns of screens from Light Clay, but here we have only Light Screen, and this format has a faster pace, so it’s not that bad.
This team looks like a lot of fun! I'm about to go to sleep, but I'll give my opinion from skimming through.

My concerns: Mawile's lack of protect, as you stated. I feel like Protect (which is already an amazing move) is too good to not have on someone like Mawile. Being able to protect while their partner trick rooms, skill swap, or even tailwinds are all great opportunities for Mawile to really come through strong right after. I say drop rock slide.

Klefki also somewhat concerns me here. The problem is the lack of offense with the team. Very rarely will you have both your groudon and your kyogre out on the same field, meaning you'd have to pair them with one of the other 4. Mawile brings offensive pressure, but Mawile is best under tailwind, trick room, or being supported with a follow me user. So we run into the issue of rarely pairing Mawile straight up with one of your primals. Cresselia and Togekiss offer great support, with trick room, skill swap, follow me, flinches from air slash, tail wind, and even cresselia packing an ice beam can really help against certain match ups. Klefki, while a very good mon; has some issues on the team. I think you should drop Klefki for something that provides a little more pressure. For example, a rayquaza/ho-oh core could cause some issues for this team. A pokemon like scarf tyranitar could help here with fast rock slides, doing decent damage to both along with having a chance to flinch. (This is just an idea, it's not something you need)

anywho, hope I worded everything right despite being so sleepy. hope this helps a bit, your team looks great!
50 thousand people used to live here...Now it's a ghost town.
I think your team has a strong core, well established. You just need to polish it.

Like @Rogue, I wonder if Klefki will be usefull to your team. Same concern for no Protect on Mawile.

An other concern would be to rely on Water Spout for Kyogre. Not having any other STAB move might be tough if you take any damage before attacking.
Why do have 100 Speed on your Kyogre? It doesn't make you really outspeed anything and might make you lose the speed tie under Trick Room. Did youwant to outspeed something specific?

Speaking about speed, I feel like Tailwind might be hard to set up. Since your team is made for Trick Room, you will lose the Tailwind battle against a faster team. You would need something to Taunt an opponent Tailwind user. Maybe that's what you should look for to replace Klefki if you go that way.
Thanks guys, really appretiate the feedback.

I feel that everything that was said is quite correct. Protect on Mawile may really be the way to go. I'm aware of the fact half my team has little to none offensive pressure, so I built it so the other halve is over offensive. From my experience, Mawile is the most powerful mega, but can be takken out with easy if you play it wrong, so I wanted to have options for how to support it. The lack of offence is part of the reason I went for togekiss instead of togetic in the end, to get a little more chip damage or even KO's with the right typing machup.

The Kyogre EV spreed was half assed actually, and I was only thinking on winnig against other kyogre, since I don't have amazing anwers to it in the rest of the team. The 100 number is 100% random, and yeah, it hurts more than help under Trick Room. I'm still thinking on how to go about that properly.

About Klefki, he's the best answer I got for Smeagle and other tricksters, which is so prevalecent in the format, while still being an amazing support. I still think that if it goes away, the best option is Sableye and the double mega strategy. But the combination swagger and foul play can pack a punch in some situations, or at least get some nice chip damage.

Finally, I've being able to pick some wins with surprising my adversary with tailwind before. I like the dual speed control option because, while I can't expect to win against other tailwind users, If I can set it up alone it's still very advantageos. One strategy that I found useful is to set it up in the last turn of Trick Room, when my opponent is confident to outspeed me next, and could be concentrated on Cresselia to try and avoid me from setting it up again.
The Double Primal + M-Mawile + Cresselia core is solid enough and i would start adjusting the team from here (this core has achieved many Regional Top Cuts around the world in the last weeks).


100 Spe EVs on Kyogre are a waste imo, most of the Modest Kyogre only run 4 or 12 Spe EVs or go with 236 Spe EVs to outspeed max speed Smeargle by 1 point.

76 SpA EVs are enough for a Modest P-Kyogre (it has almost the same SpA stat as a 252 SpA EVs Timid one)

I would run something like 252 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe on your P-Kyogre which is bulkier, it gives you enough attack power and it tries to outspeed any other Modest Kyogre.


If you really want to take advantage of Trick Room, i think you'll need to run a Brave P-Groudon with 0 Spe IVs. Your moveset is fine (the fact you run Brave instead of Adamant nature is also beneficial for Earth Power damage output)


Protect on M-Mawile is mandatory. If you want a Rock type coverage move, you can run Rock Slide instead of Earth Power on your Groudon. Mawile is really frail so i would just invest everything into HP and Atk with a simple 252/252/4 EV spread


I'd say run 0 EVs into SpA and put everything into bulk since Cresselia's goal is to support its partner as long as possible. To do that, i think you must get rid of Protect and give Cress something like Gravity or Helping Hand. Ice Beam hits M-Mence and M-Ray harder than Psychic, so you may want to change that too.

Although i tried to improve this core a little bit, there may be something you are still really weak even after taking in consideration both Togekiss and Klefki support.

Smeargle in Team Preview: it almost forces you to bring Klefki, which isn't exactly the best thing to have if your opponent reads that and leads with its Groudon. Another problem is that if you bring Klefki you only have room for 3 more mons (2 of them usually being the Primals - the only way for dealing damage - and the other one Cresselia to setup TR)

M-Rayquaza: it can hit your Primals really hard depending on its moveset and it can also OHKO M-Mawile with Overheat

Fake Out + set-up: you can't stop Geomancy or Sword Dance from happening if paired with a Fake Out user which is able to stop Klefki for that turn.

Many teams in Top Cut decided to use the support duo of Talonflame and Amoonguss to complete a Double Primals team:

Talonflame gives you priority Tailwind and Brave Bird (another strong way to deal some damage), while supporting your team with both Quick Guard and Taunt. The common EV spread is Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Amoonguss can run a surprise Focus Sash to survive an Eruption or a Dragon Ascent and so on. You can also give it Lum Berry to counter the Xerneas/Smeargle lead. It's a solid Trick Room pokemon (or a TR counter on the other hand) and it gives you both Spore and redirection with Rage Powder but it's also able to deal some damage thanks to Grass Knot. Its common set is Sassy 0 Spe IVs 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD.

Hope this helps! I've used both some VGC resources and my experience to give you these tips.
That was really helpfull, specially on the spreeds. Mine are pretty half assed really, to say the truth.

Thanks a lot. I'll certainlly apply much of your advice, and rethink somethings based on them.

Forum Jump:
POKéMON of the Day

#559 Scraggy

Recent Threads
Pokemon Unite Looking for Teammates
Forum: General Pokemon Discussion
last post by Black Waterfall
Oct 5, 2021, 07:44 PM
[FRIEND SAFARI] Really need friend safaries
Forum: Pokemon Trading, Breeding, & Friend Safari
last post by stephenWITNESS
Sep 21, 2021, 11:07 AM
[GIVEAWAY] 4 Pokeball Megearna Givaway!!!!!!
Forum: Pokemon Giveaways
last post by stephenWITNESS
11 hours ago
Forum: Meet and Greet
last post by RetroTyphlosion
Aug 24, 2021, 06:53 PM
im new
Forum: Meet and Greet
last post by batgirl1002
Aug 19, 2021, 09:40 AM

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)