The Current VGC Format Actually Rewards Cheating.

[DanielJames]

You do bring up a lot of interesting and valid points, evilsabre. As you say, Powersaving in any capacity is, by definition, illegal. But if the Pokémon's stats, moves, abilities, EVs, and IVs are all legit, is that ultimately cheating? I'm more so asking that question as a rhetorical one so you don't have to answer it. It raises an interesting dilemma though.

I do like your suggestion to fix the problem. Banning legendaries and event Pokémon would be game changing for the VGC community. Imagine not being able to use Landorus-T, Thundurus-I, Heatran, Cresselia, etc. Believe it or not, that would open up the game to more team possibilities because we wouldn't see players using the same legendaries on every team. It would force people to be more creative with their team building which would ultimately be more healthy for the community in the long run.

Great article though! It'll be interesting to see if changes are made to the VGC community in the future.

[evilsabre]

(Jul 18, 2015, 04:06 AM)DanielJames Wrote: You do bring up a lot of interesting and valid points, evilsabre. As you say, Powersaving in any capacity is, by definition, illegal. But if the Pokémon's stats, moves, abilities, EVs, and IVs are all legit, is that ultimately cheating? I'm more so asking that question as a rhetorical one so you don't have to answer it. It raises an interesting dilemma though.

I do like your suggestion to fix the problem. Banning legendaries and event Pokémon would be game changing for the VGC community. Imagine not being able to use Landorus-T, Thundurus-I, Heatran, Cresselia, etc. Believe it or not, that would open up the game to more team possibilities because we wouldn't see players using the same legendaries on every team. It would force people to be more creative with their team building which would ultimately be more healthy for the community in the long run.

Great article though! It'll be interesting to see if changes are made to the VGC community in the future.

Thanks, yea i don't think they give a huge advantage but regardless of the advantage i don't think they help the competitive image of vgc.

Also glad you like my idea for fixing it i agree 100% but i dno how long the diversity would last i suspect we'd end up just using the best no legend teams but i agree it might open up the meta a bit to change. :D

[A#1DukeofNY]

"I'm not going blame players for powersaving not everyone has the patience to SR but until Nintendo and gamefreak solve the issue i feel people should at least be sportsmanlike enough to not take powersaved pokemon into competitive events as it just reflects badly on the community as a whole."

I liked your post. It was thought out well and doesn't attack people for using Powersaves.

I'll use myself as an example for how it is a clear advantage. Last Friday i built a full team from nothing (IVs, EVs, items, natures, abilites, everything) and was playing on battle spot in 3 hours. I'll add here that the highest I have ever made it on the ladder is 1685, so clearly it's no substitute for skill or a deep understanding of the game. Something I lack.

But a few questions? How would anyone know if I brought my Powersaved Landorus to an event? Could I not just say I got it from SRing? Who is going to ask? Would everyone just assume anyone who brought a legendary used a Powersaves? You can change IV's, so you can even make a powersaved mon look legit by lowing a few of the IVs to 1/0 or by simply not fully EV training it. I fully support only allowing breed-able pokemon in VGC play.

As has been mentioned before, there are good reasons to Powersave. I am 30, work a full time job (40-45 hours a week), I'm in the middle of planning my wedding, and adore spending time with my wife to be.

I also love competitive VGC play. Here was my dilemma: Powersave competitive mons or not play at all. While you do make a case for how powersaves hurts the community, there is a flip side. How would it affect the competitive community if everyone out there in my situation stopped playing?

If you believe there would be no effect that's fine. Just something to think about. A growing vibrant community tends to focus on bringing people in. Not keeping them out. This is a good reason for Gamefreak to find a way to solve the problem. If Gamefreak made it easier/ less time intensive to play competitively without powersaves, I'd jump on it. Right now Powersaves is the resource I have.

To quote The Dark Knight: Powersaves is the solution we need, but not the one we deserve

[ChaseInfinity]

(Jul 20, 2015, 01:13 PM)A#1DukeofNY Wrote: But a few questions? How would anyone know if I brought my Powersaved Landorus to an event? Could I not just say I got it from SRing? Who is going to ask? Would everyone just assume anyone who brought a legendary used a Powersaves?  You can change IV's, so you can even make a powersaved mon look legit by lowing a few of the IVs to 1/0 or by simply not fully EV training it.  I fully support only allowing breed-able pokemon in VGC play.

Thats the one problem GameFreak has they cant really make accusations of people cheating when they cant really prove it even thought they know out of the so many people participating in a tournament that most of the are Genned, because of this as long as the pokemon goes through the checker thing, they cant do anything they just have to let him/her go

[Snowpoint]

No one has mentioned Hidden Power yet. I think breeding for HP is to complicated and time consuming. And If the HP need changes, as it does with the meta-game, you have to breed a whole new mon = Powersaves motivation.

I suggest an Ability Capsule like item that changes HP to the chosen type.

Another idea, harder to implement, just ignoring IVs at Nationals and Worlds. Only Nature, Ability, and Moves of a Pokemon would matter. With synchronize, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the one you want. How this would happen IDK. It is not a fun idea, but it would discourage cheating.

Another small problem is when Legendaries have multiple forms - each needing a different nature, but you can only catch one. . Not a big problem, but there ya go.

[A#1DukeofNY]

(Jul 20, 2015, 03:35 PM)Animekid7 Wrote:

(Jul 20, 2015, 01:13 PM)A#1DukeofNY Wrote: But a few questions? How would anyone know if I brought my Powersaved Landorus to an event? Could I not just say I got it from SRing? Who is going to ask? Would everyone just assume anyone who brought a legendary used a Powersaves?  You can change IV's, so you can even make a powersaved mon look legit by lowing a few of the IVs to 1/0 or by simply not fully EV training it.  I fully support only allowing breed-able pokemon in VGC play.

Thats the one problem GameFreak has they cant really make accusations of people cheating when they cant really prove it even thought they know out of the so many people participating in a tournament that most of the are Genned, because of this as long as the pokemon goes through the checker thing, they cant do anything they just have to let him/her go

That was kinda my point. I was responding to this quote "I'm not going blame players for powersaving not everyone has the patience to SR but until Nintendo and gamefreak solve the issue i feel people should at least be sportsmanlike enough to not take powersaved pokemon into competitive events as it just reflects badly on the community as a whole."

Particularly this bit "i feel people should at least be sportsmanlike enough to not take powersaved pokemon into competitive events as it just reflects badly on the community as a whole." Who could possibly know Guy A - sportsmanlike he SR to get his, but Guy B - he CLEARLY powersaved his. Its an on your honor system where it's particularly difficult to detect powersavers like me. So ANYONE who uses a legendary becomes suspect of powersaving. That's why I support banning ALL non-breedable pokemon from competitions.

[IceyGamer]

My personal opinion is do whatever you need to get the win. At the end of the day if the pokemon was or wasn't genned it doesn't really matter, its down to who wins the battles. You can still have flawless legends but that doesn't mean they can't be beat. When I went to SoCal regional I found out everybody after the fact powersaved their pokemon and what I used was completely legit. I still top cut and had really close battles. It came down to my own personal skill instead of if my pokemon were genned or not.

Not taking any shots or discriminating anybody's opinion, just stating my view and opinion on the matter.

[Apo]

i feel the problem is not powersaves, its the game itself. a real competitve game won't ask you to spend more time preparing for the competition than actually playing (Hello League of Legends, Dota2, CS:Go, FIFA, Fighting games etc etc)
and all these games use the game only, you don't bring your own datas, you can't cheat. pokemons are just line of codes, it will always be possible to be hacked, sooner or later.

the solution is to make it easier to get what you need. replace IVs with more EVs, or juste something to change the DNA of your pokemons while in eggs, or when the parents mate (Hello Jurassic World) an item that can be bought in the story mode (with $ so you have to PLAY to get them) or by earning points with online battles. makes Synchronize 100% chance. who expect someone to spend hours hitting left and right on the 3DS just to hatch one good pokemon? :P

we are humans, not brainless corpses. and right now Pokemon is not designed to be a competitive game, if Nintendo/GameFreak want it to be, it need to change, else players won't.

[Luisito]

(Jul 17, 2015, 02:33 PM)evilsabre Wrote: Ok now that’s said on to the main reason behind why I’m posting this, well the primary reason is hopefully to change the way some people might currently be thinking in regards to competitive play and powersaves.

Perhaps you are not interested in this, but it would be fantastic if this could also turn into some guide for newcomers like myself, not just for the people currently using it. Perhaps adding an extra section explaining what it is, what it does, etc.

I am a complete newb at all-things-Pkmn, I finally understood what powersaves do like an hour ago, I thought that it was only for cloning Pkmn, but as it turns out, you can modify a Pkmn with no limitations. As a newcomer, it saddens me to see so many people trying to get the quick way on one of the most popular games of the entire planet, they are areally missing the point and all the fun. I mean, the story itself, either the manga or the anime is about raising, breeding and capturing all Pkmn, I think that many, if not most people that play Pkmn games have lost the essence of the game, that is truly pitiful.

I've been playing AS for a month, I have finished the game and now focusing on completing my Pkdx. It is fun! And I have found a love for breeding Pkmn, I even opened a Giveaway thread to share what I consider good and strong Pkmn for the people that want to compete but don't have good IV's on their team. My Giveaway Shop

One day I will take my team to a competition, and obviously lose, but those Pkmn will be my own, bred, hatched, and raised to their maximum potential. I will be very proud, the point is having fun, and make friends; but now people focus on competition and "I am better than you".

I always wondered why I was getting Wurmples on Masterballs on World Trade, now I get it. At one point I considered those trainers to have made a mistake with their only one Masterball. Haha.  :P

[Vectorshot]

+1 for an awesome post. This has been something that has always puzzled me since I got into competitive pokemon. No matter if it's a video game or a sport, people will always try to gain an unfair advantage. Especially if money is on the line. It's fine to use cheats casually, but when your cheating directly ruins someone else's fun or hard work, then I think it becomes a problem. More so in competition.