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+--- Thread: (No longer spoilers) Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis (/Thread-No-longer-spoilers-Full-Alolan-Dex-revealed-VGC17-analysis)
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(No longer spoilers) Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - MagnusHexem - Oct 18, 2016
2 years ago, we were introduced to the Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire Special Demo! The most interesting thing that came out of it was the fact that there was a lot of unusable code found inside of the demo, thanks to dataminers and hackers. We found out that there were no new megas left, and we were even able to find out the base stats of each of the new ones.
Here were are, with the Sun and Moon demo finally in our hands, and while not as much has been left in the code, there are new things that have been discovered. We can't see any potential new Mega evolutions or base stats. However, what we did get some new info on was the entire Alolan Dex. It revealed some new Alolan forms of Kanto Pokemon that we have yet to see, and it showed us all 92 Pokemon from Alola!
Here is the link to the pictures that reveal what is in the Dex: http://imgur.com/gallery/5C8ry
However, what I'd like to take away from this is the other Pokemon that are in the Alolan Dex. All the original Kanto classics, as well every other Pokemon from Johto to Kalos, that are shown to be in this special dex, are the Pokemon that we will have to choose from in the upcoming VGC format. This is a big deal for a number of reasons.
The obvious one is that we can start looking at the meta and picking out the best mons to use on our teams without having to wait a month from now and then rushing to make an adequate team. The big kicker is that the Sun and Moon format is starting almost immediately after the game comes out. December 1st, to be exact. There are going to be less than two weeks for us to finish the game and get a team ready in a new generation! To make thing even crazier, we aren't going to be able to use transfered Pokemon due to the rules, and any abilities that might make Pokemon better will be stuck in Gen 6 for the time being due to Pokemon Bank not being ready right away. On top of all of this, the London International Championships are taking place on December 11th! Needless to say, the meta there is going to be very different and highly un-developed.
However, with this information, we can try to piece together what the meta might look like. It's hard to know everything. We don't know about any nerfs or buffs that any Pokemon got. We don't know if there will be new things introduced on Gen 7 Pokemon that could counter Pokemon from other generations. We don't know what new moves or abilities will be given to already existing Pokemon. However, I'd like to take a look at what will be legal as of December first, and what we might be able to make of it.
I will be trying to do some analysis in later posts, but for now I'm going to be listing each legal Pokemon. I'm simply compiling the information we have by listing every fully-evolved Pokemon into text, including a few Pokemon that might be viable with and eviolite, and leaving out Pokemon that everyone knows are bad. Here goes:
Kanto:
I'm going to imagine that the Pokemon here that have Alolan forms will not be available in their original forms until Pokemon Bank is fully functioning, so I'm going to split this part up. Like the Alolan Pokemon themselves, we don't know everything about these Pokemon, so I'm going to split them up just to make it easier for us to analyze everything later.
Normal Pokemon:
Butterfree
Fearow
Pikachu
Clefable
Wigglytuff
Parasect
Golduck
Primeape
Arcanine
Poliwrath
Alakazam
Machamp
Tentacruel
Slowbro
Magneton
Cloyster
Gengar
Hypno
Chansey
Kangaskhan
Seaking
Starmie
Scyther
Electabuzz
Magmar
Pinsir
Tauros
Gyarados
Lapras
Ditto
Vaporeon
Jolteon
Flareon
Aerodactyl
Snorlax
Dragonite
Alolan forms:
Raticate (Normal/Dark)
Raichu (Electric/Psychic)
Sandslash (Ice
Ninetales (Ice/Fairy)
Dugtrio (Unknown)
Persian (Dark)
Golem (Unknown)
Muk (Poison/Dark)
Exeggcutor (Grass/Dragon)
Marowak (Fire/Ghost)
^These Pokemon above in their original forms will very likely not be legal until Bank is ready to transfer to Gen 7, which is presumably some time in January.
Johto Pokemon:
Ariados
Crobat
Lanturn
Sudowoodo
Politoed
Espeon
Umbreon
Murkrow
Slowking
Granbull
Scizor
Sneasel
Skarmory
Porygon2
Smeargle
Miltank
Blissey
Hoenn:
Pelipper
Masquerain
Hariyama
Sableye
Sharpedo
Wailord
Torkoal
Trapinch
Flygon
Whiscash
Milotic
Absol
Glalie
Relicanth
Salamence
Metagross
Sinnoh:
Rampardos
Bastiodon
Gastrodon
Drifblim
Mismagius
Honchkrow
Garchomp
Riolu
Lucario
Lumineon
Weaville
Magnezone
Electivire
Magmortar
Leafeon
Glaceon
Porygon-Z
Probopass
Frosslass
Unova:
Stoutland
Gigalith
Whimsicott
Lilligant
Krookodile
Carracosta
Archeops
Garbador
Vanilluxe
Emolga
Alomomola
Braviary
Mandibuzz
Kalos:
Talonflame
Pangoro
Sylveon
Carbink
Goodra
Klefki
Trevenant
Zygarde? (They probably won't make anything Zygarde-related legal.)
As for the Alolan Pokemon themselves, there are 92 of them, so the format is bound to be cluttered with them. We don't know everything about them, but for what we do know about the Pokemon from Kanto to Kalos, I'm going to try and analyze what I think will be good, as well as the merit of a few other Pokemon that might not have had as much of a chance before. I'm going to put them in seperate posts, though, as it'll take a while, and I'd like to see some feedback from everyone else here, as I don't expect to be perfect or correct in all of my predictions. For now, you can check through the lists I've created here and see what you think. Will there be any breakout stars in this format that never got a chance to shine? Will Pokemon like Metagross and Snorlax make a comeback? Will Pokemon like Garchomp and regular Salamence rule the meta once again? Discuss here!
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - Black117 - Oct 18, 2016
Well since we technically now have an idea what the Alolan Regional Dex for other region-based Pokemon, going to give my two cents on the matter. As you said, we don't know what's going to be viable, however I'm going to list down what I personally think will likely be "strong" or part of any good stuff team for the upcoming VGC 17 format. Obviously neglecting legends, UBs, Ash Greninja, Magearna, and maybe some Kanto-based Pokemon due to the mechanics of regional variants. Also placed somewhat of a footnote for these Pokemon to briefly explain why they might be used more often than others. So here's what players will immediately look into without having an extensive into their moves or BSTs.
Well that's a personal list of "strong" Pokemon people should prepare for, or consider using for the upcoming format without going too deep into each mon's viability. Looking forward in in seeing your individual analysis @MagnusHexem. If you need any help, can always pm me or any of the competitive moderators as this might prove to be a notable task.
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - GiMYz - Oct 19, 2016
There are so many old faces that we could build a really solid team even without using the new Alolan mons, just think about Arcanine, Weavile, Politoed, Scizor, Milotic, Salamence, Metagross, Garchomp, Talonflame and Sylveon for example.. these mons were among the Most Used during VGC14 and VGC15 meta, so i don't know if there will be something better coming from the Alola Region (except for Ultra Beasts) that can compete with our old meta picks.
Yeah we have a Dragon/Fighting type with Soundproof but Sylveon can just run Moonblast, and we also have a new Grass type immune to priority moves but Talonflame can use Flare Blitz instead. It seems like they have tried to introduce these small teches to "counter" the old gens, but are they really useful?
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - talbees - Oct 19, 2016
I'm not sure if anyone has put this out there yet, but does anyone think that maybe some of these were planted by Game Freak? The demo is a stand alone so it doesn't make sense that all the pokedex info would be needed in the demo. I guess it is possible, but it just doesn't make sense that they would make the same mistake again (ORAS) and some of the sprites seem to be off in terms of quality from the known new pokemon. Could be wrong just thought I would throw it out there.
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - Black117 - Oct 19, 2016
Before anyone says anything, basically looked this video which list most of the speed control, redirection, fake out user in the format. Thanks to these Jamie Kean and his UK VGC friends for complying this list. For those who don't want to listen to the 1 hr video and want to see these Pokemon, well I'll just abbreviate it down here.
Fake Out:
Tailwind:
Trick Room:
Icy Wind:
Thunder Wave:
Intimidate:
Defiant / Competitive:
Redirection (Follow Me / Rage Powder):
Again highly recommend anyone watch this video, though might want to take it on on your spare time
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - GiMYz - Oct 27, 2016
Final Evos accidentally revealed from the upcoming TCG packs
photo + discussion here:
![[Image: pokemon-sun-moon-starters.jpg]](http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/pokemon-sun-moon-starters.jpg)
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - MagnusHexem - Nov 5, 2016
Okay. No more excuses. I've put this on hold for two and a half weeks. I need to put out something. I'm not going to dawdle any more.
How I'm going to do this is analyze Pokemon from my point of view and experience. I am bound to be wrong on a few of these, so anyone can feel free to fill me in on something that I missed. This will mostly be my analysis, but I appreciate any feedback that is given to me. I will separate different groups of Pokemon. This post will be about what I think are the top Pokemon to expect in the format. Other sections will include things likes comeback Pokemon, Trick Room setup-ers and sweepers, support Pokemon, Pokemon that might not be useful if move tutors aren't allowed, etc.
Actually, about that last one. If the last 3 generations are any indication, move tutors will NOT return for Sun and Moon. This means that there will be certain moves that will be a lot less common than they were in the last 2 formats due to low accessibility. So the stuff that those British VGC players posted about moves like Tailwind and Icy Wind...I would take those with a grain of salt. Very few Pokemon in this format will get legal access to those moves. Keep that in mind. Of course, none of this is set in stone. But based on Pokemon's pattern, it is very likely that this will be the case.
Top-Tier threats:
Garchomp
![[Image: garchomp-f.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/garchomp-f.png)
Remember this big ol' baddy from VGC14? Heck, if you play metagames like Smogon OU and/or Battle Spot Singles, you still see it! There's no denying that Garchomp is one of the best Pokemon in most formats it's available in. None of its stats are disappointing in the slightest. Bragging good bulk is something that a lot of fast physical sweepers can't do. Garchomp's relatively superior speed to physical attackers, along with a high attack stat and STAB'd Earthquake, make it a great fit for teams who could still use a general physical powerhouse. What makes Garchomp a very popular choice is how easy it is to use and understand, and that it counters itself...a combination for a giant bandwagon.
Gengar
![[Image: gengar.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/gengar.png)
Ever since Gen2, Gengar has been a favorite in both design and battle. The addition of its mega and both of its STABs getting buffed offensively in Gen 6 only helped this thing get more love. Like Garchomp, Gengar is a fantastic and popular choice in just about every metagame. It hits hard and it fast, but it also has access to other support moves like Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Icy Wind, (albeit likely illegal this format,) which are considerably more useful on it due to the possibilities of other sets it can use...which leads to unpredictability. Although seeing a Focus Sash on it is predictable. Its frailty stops it from being too spooky, but it can still get a lot done with a Sash, and can put a dent in Pokemon weak to Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Will-O-Wisp...you get the idea. It's fast and has great options. You all know this by now.
Clefable and Clefairy
![[Image: clefable.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/clefable.png)
![[Image: clefairy.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/clefairy.png)
Small story: One of the particularly interesting things about VGC14 was the limited options to choose from. Of course is the case with a dex of only 300 Pokemon...but one area that the competitive area saw a strange limitation in was redirection. There were only so many Rage Powder Pokemon to choose from. Amoongus was there...but so was the incarnation of a new item: the Safety Goggles. Some Pokemon carried this specifically to counter it. As such, Follow Me became even more reliable than it already was in comparison to Rage Powder. But, our Follow Me options were also limited...to 3 Pokemon. Furret, Lucario, and Pachirisu. We know what happened with Pachirisu, but the truth is that Follow Me Lucario actually had some unspoken success as well. This should be a statement for how important Follow Me was. With no Clefairy-line or Togepi-line Pokemon legal, these inferior redirection-ers were the ones taking the spotlight.
But here we are in a new meta where we'll most likely see that change. Clefable and Clefairy were shown past 2014 to be very useful being bulky Follow Me users who also had some other great support options. To name a few, Clefairy's Friend Guard, Clefable's Unaware, Helping Hand, and Icy Wind. There's no reason not to expect both of these Pokemon as two of the top support Pokemon in the format. Clefairy is considered over Clefable sometimes due to its access to Friend Guard, and nothing else. So if Clefairy doesn't get its hidden ability in SuMo, we'll have to wait until the Bank update for it to see usage. Bulky Follow Me is enough for these 2 to be considered on any team in need.
Whimsicott
![[Image: whimsicott.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/whimsicott.png)
Still on the topic of VGC14, our options for Pranksters were Murkrow, Sableye, male Meowstic, Klefki, and Mega Banette. While none of these are bad by any means, they certainly aren't up to snuff as most of the rest of the Prankster users. Whimsicott's fairy and grass coverage alongside priority Tailwind already gives it an edge, but the sheer amount of Prankster-boosted moves it gets is more than just eyebrow-raising. I won't name them all, but there is just so much that you can do with this thing. I consider it to be one of the better support mons out there due to the insane amount of things it can do. Oh, and it's the fastest Prankster user, so it's not as easily baited by Taunt.
Slowbro/Slowking
![[Image: slowbro.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/slowbro.png)
![[Image: slowking.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/slowking.png)
With common Trick Room Pokemon like Cresselia and Gothitelle out, Slowbro and Slowking step up to the occasion as the new superior users of Trick Room. They are bulkier than the others that can learn it, they are super slow, and have access to the always useful Ice Beam and Scald. They also have Oblivious, which makes them immune to Taunt! Expect these 2 to be common Trick Room team tropes.
Politoed
![[Image: politoed-f.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/politoed-f.png)
"Rain, rain, go away. Come again another day." Well, I've got great news for you. None of the non-alolan Pokemon really have anything to take advantage of rain! No Mega Swampert, no Kingdra...and no Ludicolo. Thank Goomy. However, don't let this thing fool you. Rain is still the best weather condition, powering up water moves and weakening fire moves that threaten Pokemon who's biggest weakness are fire moves. Plus, the only other weather inducer in this format that we can see so far is Ninetales, so it will be harder to shut rain down, even if it is less threatening. I still think it's something to watch out for.
Weaville
![[Image: weavile-f.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/weavile-f.png)
Weaville didn't pick up much usage until 2015 due to its inaccessibility to the heavily buffed Knock Off in 2014. However, Weaville is still super fast and has access to Fake Out and STAB'd, physical Ice attacks that heavily threaten specific Pokemon, and occasionally even entire teams. Its fraility is barely a bother to it due to being able to do its job in the first few turns: disrupting the opponent with Fake Out, and taking out top-tier Pokemon with Icicle Crash. Just remember that Knock Off is unlikely to be legal again unless it becomes an egg move, so its utility might get limited. But it's still great nonetheless.
Talonflame
![[Image: talonflame.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/talonflame.png)
Yep. Talonflame is back. Kind of surprised it's in Alola considering they made a new bird for Alola. Talonflame's stats aren't that great, but we all know what its big draw is: one of the most powerful priority moves in the game. Combine that with a fast Quick Guard, STAB'd fire coverage, and one of the few [supposedly] legal Tailwind users, and you've got a Pokemon that can do a lot and put a lot of pressure on your opponent. However, it is important to note that Gale Wings is its hidden ability. If Gale Wings is not available in SuMo, then we won't be seeing Gale Wings being legal until Bank is updated. So there will be some down time of seeing almost no Talonflame. Because a bird Pokemon with only one good stat and no good ability...really isn't all that great. On another side note, there are new abilities and even a new terrain that block priority. This will put a damper on Talonflame, but I would still expect to see it a decent amount.
Sylveon
![[Image: sylveon.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/sylveon.png)
I hate Sylveon. I hate all eeveelutions, but Sylveon is different. Sylveon is "spam one move to win." With it being the only non-mega with access to Pixilate, and one gigantic Special Defense stat, Choice Specs Sylveon ran the early 2015 meta. It became predictable, and people came more prepared, so it went down in usage. But it was still something to watch out for, thanks to a very powerful spread attack that had great coverage against otherwise powerful Pokemon. However, this move was Hyper Voice. What's the significance? It is a tutor-only move. Again, if we are to believe tutor moves won't return once again...I don't see Sylveon being used on any teams at all. But it's worth mentioning in case I end up being wrong on how they handle tutor moves.
Arcanine
![[Image: arcanine.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/arcanine.png)
Arcanine's role in VGC in Gen 6 was seen more successfully as a support type of role, with access to Intimidate, Snarl, Will-O-Wisp, and decent bulk that most fire types didn't have. However, there are very few offensive Fire types seen in the Alolan dex to my knowledge, so I can easily see Arcanine stepping up to bat in its old role it had in singles. With access to a somewhat powerful Flare Blitz, combined with Close Combat and ExtreemeSpeed, Arcanine looks to be a powerful force against Pokemon weak to these 3 moves. Combine that will the fact that it can still run support moves, or use and Assault Vest decently alongside Intimidate, and Arcanine can be a little unpredictable in team preview, as it can serve many different roles for a team.
That'll be it for now! Next, I plan on covering Pokemon that I think will come back from years of underusage. After that, I'll go over Pokemon that are in the tier below the top one. Stay tuned, and I appreciate feedback on anything that I might have missed!
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - Black117 - Nov 6, 2016
Thanks for providing the short analysis on these prospect Pokémon considering they've seen significant use from previous formats. While we don't know much about the guardian deity Pokémon, but have the strong feeling these Pokémon will heavily influence the VGC 17 format with their terrain setting abilities. Even what I consider the weakest of the four in Tapu Bulu can reduce the effectiveness of Earthquake, one of the most staple spread attacks in VGC. Status moves might be even harder to inflict given now give Tapu Koko and Fini are going to be prevelant in the meta and their terrain field effects.
That said, could see things like Gengar, Metagross, Arcanine, etc might see some significant usage to counter act these part Fairy types. Gengar is particular has the potential to be an offensive check to the Tapus, though not sure how it will fair against other things.
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - MagnusHexem - Nov 10, 2016
Alright! As promised many times, here are the comeback Pokemon! I'm going to enjoy this one! :D
Snorlax
![[Image: snorlax.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/snorlax.png)
Oh, my old pal Snorlax. I whole-heartedly welcome you back. Mega Kangaskhan was a cruel mistress to you. As an overpowered normal type who did everything but bulk better than you, people didn't even want to consider you as an overall great normal type to add to their team...because most likely, they already had the broken Khan. But thank Goomy that she is gone alas! Your special bulk is un-matched, and any special attacker would hate having to go up against you! Your physical bulk is also quite nice, thanks to one of the highest HP stats in the game! Being a Normal type means you only get STAB on Return and Body Slam, but it also means that only Fighting types will think about trying to threatening you. Overall, you're hard to take down, have great coverage as any normal type should, you're a good Trick Room sweeper, and people just love using a goofy and appealing Pokemon like you! And hey, your new Z move Pulverizing Pancake looks beyond epic! I wouldn't be surprised if it's more powerful than other Z moves based on the fact that it's exclusive to you! Once again, welcome back, buddy. :')
Metagross
![[Image: metagross.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/metagross.png)
Gen 6 gave Metagross a bit of an identity crisis. When I saw that Steel no longer resists Ghost and Dark, I immediately thought, "Oh, poor Metagross and Bronzong.
" Then ORAS came, and Metagross got a deserving Mega evolution. Mega Metagross was good, but it wasn't nice to Metagross itself. It focused on offensive pressure more than coverage and bulk, and after the 2015 Missouri regionals where it had a breakout success thanks to a circle of very competitive friends, it disappeared off the VGC scene for good. Not even 1 Megagross made it to Day 2 of Nationals. However, with no Mega to choose from, and with less Pokemon to stand in the way, Metagross will return to true form. Its attack and bulk are well above average, and its steel typing makes it a nuisance to some to take down. Steel and Psychic coverage together isn't that great, but the other moves it gets, like Ice Punch, Earthquake, and a powerful Bullet Punch, make it well worth the ride. If were are to believe that the Alolan Guardians will be popular, Metagross will be a great check to them!
Salamence
![[Image: salamence.png]](https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/x-y/normal/salamence.png)
Wait, isn't Salamence, like, sort of OP in VGC 16? Yeah, Mega Salamence. Truth is, its Mega and the way it was run in VGC 14 are two very different Pokemon from a competitive viewpoint. Once Mega Salamence came along, no one used regular Salamence ever again. Fully special Scarf Salamence was very prominent back then, which may have led to the trend in Scarf Landorus later. With less Intimidaters and overall competition, you can expect to see it return to form. Thank Goomy, too. I was getting sick of Mega Salamence after VGC16.
*leaks happen.*
OH GOSH. The new, full-on leaks turned a lot of this stuff on its side. I think it's best if I focus on those now, as they will have a lot of influence.
So...next post!: I will be going over the Pokemon that have had their stats buffed as well as their abilities changed. Trust, you don't want to miss these crazy changes...
RE: *Spoilers* Full Alolan Dex revealed: VGC17 analysis - Black117 - Nov 10, 2016
Again thanks for the work @MagnusHexem for the analysis on Snorlax, Metagross, and Salamence. Yeah definitely we'll be seeing more of the Hoenn Pseudo-Legendary Pokemons, notable Metagross to deal with the strong Dragon- and Fairy-types that might run rampant in this format. Alright I know people don't want any "spoilers" concerning the new Pokemon, moves, abilities and whatnot, but here's some Google Docs of the Alolan BSTs done by Blake Hopper. Most of the information there are BSTs and all final stage or "usable" Pokemon (think Eviolite) in the Alolan Dex.
VGC 2017 Spreadsheet