[RATE MY TEAM] Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - Printable Version +- Pokemon Forever (http://pokemonforever.com) +-- Forum: POKéMON (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-POK%C3%A9MON) +--- Forum: Competitive Pokemon Discussion (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Pokemon-Discussion) +--- Thread: [RATE MY TEAM] Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) (/Thread-RATE-MY-TEAM-Gyarados-s-Bizzarre-Adventure-The-Room-VGC17-Trick-Room-team)

Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - Wolfoxy - Jan 5, 2017 Hey guys! This is my first team I'm posting here in hopes of getting some constructive criticism or whatever on it, before I jump into breeding The thing is that I started researching the VGC17 metagame here in the forums, and I came across the Gyarados-Alola-Marowak core, which immediately caught my eye as Marowak is one of my favorite Alola Form pokemon. There are two things I like to have while playing competitive pokemon: one is field control. So far, I've made mostly weather-based teams, now I decided to give Trick Room a try, as I found it a good way to make Alola-Marowak, one of my favorite Gen 7 pokemon shine and to put it on almost equal terms in sweeping potential with the mighty Gyarados. Altough I'm still inexperienced in team building, I feel that this team can work (maybe in more experienced hands than mine). So, let's get started (and prepare, because it'll be very very long: I tend to ramble on about small details!):  The Team Gyarados @Lum Berry Brave Nature Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 Atk / 128 HP / 68 Sp. Def / 62 Def -Dragon Dance -Waterfall -Crunch -Protect  Yeah, I just put a Dragon Dance Gyarados in a Trick Room team. I have a good reason for it: the Brave nature and zero Speed investment allows Gyarados to underspeed many pokemon, and when not in Trick Room, a Dragon Dance can help it by raising it's speed along with it's attack. The ability is just a nice Intimidate, to help the team's survivability against Physical attacks. Waterfall is Gyarados's strongest STAB and it has a lot of OHKO potential with max attack investment with or without Dragon Dance. As I wanted Gyarados to be slow enough to function in Trick Room, I didn't invest any EVs in Speed, but instead I tried to put more into bulk. I chose Crunch over Ice Fang so that Gyarados can cover Alola-Marowak's Psychic and Ghost type weakness.  Possible changes: -I'm thinking about putting Waterium-Z instead of Lum Berry, because during my test runs on Showdown, I haven't really encountered status conditions. -I still have my dilemma about Crunch/Ice Fang, as apart from Mimikyu, this team is can't do anything to basically any Dragon type as they resist both my core attackers' STAB.  Alola-Marowak @Thick Club Adamant Nature Ability: Lightning Rod EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def -Bonemerang -Flare Blitz -Shadow Bone -Protect  Alola-Marowak fits perfectly into Trick Room with it's 45 base Speed, and with it's Thick Club-boosted, maxed out Attack, and it can also absorb Electric attacks targeting Gyarados with it's Lightning Rod ability. This feat is also useful when not in Trick Room, as opponents generally consider a +1 Gyarados a bigger threat (who doesn't?) than an unboosted one, so they will try harder to KO it, but when Marowak is on the field, they can't use their 4x effective Electric attacks. Trick Room actually only enables Alola-Marowak to fully utilize it's attacking potential, as it is too slow to do it on a normal field. It's STABs are Flare Blitz and Shadow Bone, and Bonemerang is here for coverage.  Possible changes: -Sadly, Alola-Marowak's base 80 Attack is not that great, even with Thick Club and max EVs, so I'm thinking about replacing Protect with Swords Dance, but I'm not sure I can find room for it to set up. -I might replace Bonemerang with Rock Slide for the Flying type coverage. Metagross @Air Balloon Brave Nature Ability: Clear Body EVs: 252 Atk / 116 HP / 48 Def / 92 SpD -Meteor Mash -Zen Headbutt -Earthquake -Bullet Punch  Now here is the pokemon I'm not sure in. I know it has many problems: I already have more than enough physical pokemon on the team, I have more than enough Dark and Ghost weakness, but I felt that it should be there. Again, I gave it no Speed EVs in order to get some bulk, and I gave it Air Balloon to make it immune for Earthquake and other Ground moves for one time. The moveset is pretty standard I guess... Anyway, I'm not sure if Metagross actually has a place in this team.  Possible changes: -I actually thought about replacing Metagross with this guy here:  Tapu Bulu @Assault Vest Adamant Nature Ability: Grassy Surge EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 HP / 4 Def -Nature's Madness -Horn Leech -Megahorn -Superpower While Tapu Bulu is not an especially Trick Room pokemon, I feel that it can contribute greatly to the "fast mode" of the team: it helps Alola-Marowak by lowering Earthquake's (the most common Ground move in VGC) power with it's Grassy Terrain (while also providing a pseudo-Leftovers recovery for the whole team), and it makes Alola-Marowak's job easier by weakening enemies with Nature's Madness. It also helps dealing with bulky Water pokemon, which essentially wall my whole team Otherwise, this set is very basic: max Attack, max HP, Adamant nature. Horn Leech is a STAB move which also helps in sustain, Nature's Madness is a kind of support option, and Superpower is for the Steel types that threaten Tapu Bulu. Megahorn is for the Dark and Psychic types, which mainly threaten Alola-Marowak. Mimikyu @Mental Herb Relaxed Nature Ability: Disguise EVs: 252 Atk / 220 HP / 32 Def / 4 Sp.Def -Trick Room -Taunt -Shadow Claw -Play Rough  Mimikyu is the main Trick Room setter on the team. It's abillity, Disguise pretty much guarantee that Trick Room will be up. This pokemon has reasonable defenses (altough not much HP), THREE immunities and only two weaknesses. It is immune to Fake Out, can fight off Taunt with it's Mental Herb, and it's EV spread allows it to dish out some damage with it's STAB Play Rough and Shadow Claw.  Possible changes: -If Tapu Bulu is on the team, I will make Mimikyu a dedicated Trick Room setter, replacing Play Rough/Shadow Claw with support moves, like Thunder Wave or Toxic.  Reuniclus @Life Orb Quiet Nature Ability: Magic Guard EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 220 HP / 36 Def - Trick Room - Psychic - Energy Ball - Flash Cannon  The team's secondary Trick Room setter: Reuniclus can set up or abuse the Trick Room with it's reasonable bulk, base 45 Speed, and maxed Special Attack. The moveset is pure special to make use of Reuniclus's best attacking stat, as it is the only dedicated special sweeper on the team: Psychic is STAB, while Energy Ball and Flash Cannon are here to give wide coverage to Reuniclus.  Possible changes: -As Reuniclus's base HP is 110, I think it can live without that much HP investment, so I might change it's EV spread by investing a bit more in it's defenses.If I decide to put Tapu Bulu in the team, I'll replace Energy Ball with something like Focus Blast or Shadow Ball, as I think that Tapu Bulu can handle the bulky Water types this team struggles with. Lucario @Expert Belt Naive Nature Ability: Justified EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 220 Spe / 36 Atk -Quick Guard -Aura Sphere -Bullet Punch -Dark Pulse  Lucario sort of acts as the "glue" to the team: I chose Justified to make use of the team's heavy Dark type weakness, and the reason why I chose a mixed set was that I didn't want that Attack boost go to waste, but I also wanted another special attacking pokemon besides Reuniclus. It has (of course) max EVs in Special Attack, and 36 EVs in Attack, as it mainly uses the STAB Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse (against Ghost types). Quick Guard is here to protect the team from priority moves, for example Alola-Marowak from an Aqua Jet. I chose Expert Belt as an item because I didn't want to rely on Choice items, and Life Orb was already taken. Lucario is generally more useful outside Trick Room, than inside it.  Possible changes: -In order to make Lucario more useful inside Trick Room,  I'm thinking about changing it's nature to Brave or Quiet, and reorganizing it's EVs from Speed to Attack.  So, basically, this is it. If you had the patience to read the whole thing, then: congratulations :D  I put a lot of thought into this team, and I know that I'm not really good with things like creating good synergies, cores, movesets or EV spreads, so I'm aware of the fact that this team might has serious flaws that I didn't notice. Any criticism and/or suggestions are welcome! RE: Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - tikrit - Jan 5, 2017 sry but reuniclus is not legal in vgc2017 edit: tbh apart from reuniclus the builds you used for your whole team seems to work better without trick room. all the mons you use with negative speed nature are way too fast for trick room uses, especially since trick room is quite a big name in the current meta and pretty much every team has pokemon such as marowak, gastrodon, porygon or gigalith to deal with it which underspeed pretty much your whole team. RE: Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - Hatonacat - Jan 5, 2017 Lucario? I get that its metal claw can take out fairy types (Tapus, Mimikyu) And fightings nice to have for electric types. You would HAVE to get the Trick room up and make lucario 0iv in speed. It does not want to take a Tbolt/Discharge from fast pokemon like Tapu Koko, Raichu and Xerkitree (usally running choice something to make it faster) RE: Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - Black117 - Jan 6, 2017 Just a couple notes. When writing down your team in any future posts, makes sure you "import" it using Pokemon Showdown as it will have a text-format version of it prepared if you make one there. One last thing before the rate: always write EVs by this order: HP -> Atk -> Def -> SpA -> SpD -> Spe to make it easier for us import it to showdown as well. Looking at your team, there are some problems like "lack" of a proper weather response as none of your mons are able to combat it well enough aside Gyarados, though that's shaky in of itself. Since this is a "Trick Room" team, my main concern is why is there only "one" setter instead of maybe two at most. Yes the Mimikyu can setup TR with its Disguise ability to assist, though more "consistent" setters are necessary for this team. This team has about 3 Pokemon weak to Ground-type attacks, and its still an issue with Groundium Z Chomp running dominant as this time. Tapu Bulu while bulky itself isn't the best "weather" response given it doesn't fair a good matchup against most mons (Pelipper, Ninetales, Torkoal), and doesn't do much for this team aside setup Grassy Terrain. Lucario with Quick Guard is questionable given how basically Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain acts as one, not to mention it still doesn't get any notable kills. There are going to be some considerable changes to this team, but note these changes will be dependent on you and its entirely up to you to decide whether they fit best. That said, will provide explanations for each mon. Gyarados @ Waterium Z Ability: Intimidate Level: 50 EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 212 Spe Jolly Nature - Waterfall - Ice Fang - Dragon Dance - Protect If Gyarados is going to run Dragon Dance, always give it a good speed benchmark so it can perform its task well. This set is somewhat standardized, but at least it can outspeed Smeargle / Jolly Tapu Bulu, and opposing Tapu Koko at +1 Speed. Gave Gyara Waterium Z to at least give this team some extra firepower to nuke targets, though do this once the Water/Flying-type is at about +1/+2 in Attack. Ice Fang is listed to help against opposing Dragon-, Flying-, or Grass-types so just a basic coverage option. Again not much to say, but try to changes the EVs into HP, Def, and SpD to let Gyara take some hits as well. Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club Ability: Lightning Rod Level: 50 EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 84 Def / 92 SpD Brave Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Flare Blitz - Shadow Bone - Protect - Substitute / Perish Song This Alolan Marowak is probably the "nucleus" of the team given how its main task is to provide offensive pressure to threaten opposing Mons in TR and support against electric-type against Gyarados and Celesteela (will say why I added this mon later). Flare Blitz and Shadow Bone are self explanatory, but it gives A-Marowak great coverage against opposing teams notably Psychic mons like Tapu Lele or Metagross. Now the third slot is entirely up to you, though feel as if it will help A-Marowak function well for this team in the long run. Substitute lets A-Marowak gain a decoy to maintain offensive pressure entirely in your favor. Try to use Sub when your opponent has to "protect" or plays "passively" as this can punish their game plans as they have to potentially double target to deal with Marowak. Perish Song is a fun strategy to mess up opposing setup or defensive teams as it forces them to play on a "timer". Keep in mind, if you are in a 4-2 or 4-3 lead, Perish Song can be a win con so you can easily stall for 3 turns until the "slowest" mon faints. Again try to use Alolan Marowak for its role as the main damage dealer while maintain its niche roles mentioned here. Oh and the EV spread lets Alolan Marowak take potentially 3 EQs from Garchomp after an Intimidate from Gyarados while takes a Psychic Terrain boosted Psychic from Tapu Lele. Celesteela @ Leftovers Ability: Beast Boost Level: 50 EVs: 188 HP / 68 Atk / 84 Def / 4 SpA / 164 SpD Brave Nature - Heavy Slam - Flamethrower / Substitute - Leech Seed - Protect For those wondering why I swapped Metagross for Celesteela is since you're team has a number of weaknesses to Ground and Ghost already. The bulk from Celesteela can help provide cover against opposing threats like Garchomp, Gengar, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, etc and can consistently hold them down with the combination of SubSeed + Heavy Slam. If you are worried that this Celesteela set is too passive, Flamethrower can be helpful fighting off against opposing Fire-type weak mons like Kartana. Made this Celesteela set moderately bulky to take -1 LO Flare Blitz from Arcanine and a Modest Tapu Koko's T-bolt, though it has to be without Terrains. Do note the EVs help Celesteela gain attack every time it gets an OHKO and can progressively be a threat throughout the battle. Mimikyu @ Ghostium Z Ability: Disguise Level: 50 EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Shadow Claw - Play Rough - Taunt - Trick Room Mimikyu can run a simple 4 / 252 / 252 set that can get the job done. Yes this Mimikyu has no protect and is max speed, but this ensures it always faster than opposing Tapu Lele bar scarf to threaten for the OHKO with either Shadow Claw or its Z-Move variant. To explain why have a fast Trick Room mon like Mimikyu, consider the rest of your mons are already "slow" and Mimikyu can still threaten faster Pokemon like Pheromosa or Tapu Koko in TR with either STAB or Z-Move. Think of Mimikyu as a suicide lead of sorts to be able to keep momentum of the battle in your favor, so don't blindly setup TR unless needed. If facing against "hard" TR, consider bringing either Mimikyu or Porygon2 as they can "reverse" TR so your team can have the advantage long term. Taunt is listed to prevent opposing setup, including opposing Trick Room or Tailwind. Porygon2 @ Eviolite Ability: Download Level: 50 EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 36 SpA / 196 SpD / 4 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe - Ice Beam - Shadow Ball - Recover - Trick Room / Toxic Porygon2 is the 2nd TR setter on this team given how the team lacks another one and needs a makeshift answer to opposing Ghost- and Dragon-types (hence the moveset). Gave this duck a ton of Special Defense to allow it give it a good chance to take a Hydro Vortex from Golduck + Scald from Pelipper, though Mimikyu can probably do a better job at setting TR against rain. Porygon2 is substantially bulky and paired with most of the other defensive mons like Celesteela can help hold the team together for a time. Against opposing defensive teams, I'd recommend using P2 only for the "long game" but if it can get the download boost, well P2 can threaten most mons like Garchomp, Tapu Lele, Alolan Marowak, Salamence, etc with its set. If you don't like TR, then Toxic can be added to help the team against bulky stuff like Milotic, Arcanine, or Gastrodon. Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest Ability: Electric Surge Level: 50 EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 148 SpD / 100 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Thunderbolt / Nature's Madness - Discharge - Dazzling Gleam - Volt Switch Finally we have a somewhat decent answer to opposing weather teams, this Assault Vest Tapu Koko. Now note that AV Tapu Koko doesn't have much damage output when running this set, but it can direct the teams offense quite well. Thanks to the AV, Tapu Koko can live a Psychic-Terrain STAB from Tapu Lele and a Hydro Vortex from Golduck so you have a good rain response with Tapu Koko, Mimikyu, and/or Porygon2. The key here is to attempt to Volt Switch around the opposing team's "switch outs" to get better positioning, so that way you'll always be able to respond to their switch well. Since there are some single target Electric-type attacks, Discharge is listed down to hit opposing mons while avoid being redirected by Lightening Rod users. When using this, don't make the mistake of using Volt Switch while switching or having Alolan Marowak on the field since its a wasted turn and you'll mess up the battle badly. Only other move to consider is Nature's Madness over T-bolt or Volt Switch (if you want) so you'll do about 50% to a target, which can be great to setup of opposing OHKOs later on. So yeah that's the team. Another Pokemon I'd recommend on this team is either Garchomp / Krookodile with the Groundium Z so you can be able to OHKO so many threats at once. Feel free to use this team if you want, though it is somewhat radically different from the other team given it lacked a bit of synergy with the other mons. If so, ask for clarification on any mons and will gladly respond. RE: Gyarados's Bizzarre Adventure: The Room (VGC17 Trick Room team) - Wolfoxy - Jan 6, 2017 Uh, okay... I'll try...  The only problem is that I'm afraid that unfortunately I don't understand competititve battling enough to make use of the pokemon or spreads you suggested, as I still don't know a lot about many pokemon, for example I have no idea on how to use AV Tapu Koko or Celesteela, even if you clarify everything on it and explain every detail, not because I don't want to accept your suggestions, but because I simply don't have enough experience and knowledge of the metagame to understand something that was entirely devised by someone else. I though you would tell me things like "change this and this move for this and that" or "change the EV spread of X and Y": I could have used that. Or if you just plainly told me that this team isn't good (and a few reasons why it isn't) , then I could build a new one from scratch keeping my previous mistakes in mind. Then, it would be easier for me to correct them and get better in teambuilding. But anyway, thank you for your feedback! I think I learned a lot by just reading it! I'll definitely give Krookodile a shot in this team or another, because it's one of my favorite pokemon :D It looks just awesome! (I can't deny I'm a girl: I prefer to use pokemon with desings I like  :D ) About Reuniclus being illegal on VGC, I'd like to say that I won't be using this team in real competitions, so I was a bit stupid to write VGC17 as the format... Let's say BattleSpot Doubles then