[RATE MY TEAM] First team help (VGC)

[RATE MY TEAM] First team help (VGC) - Printable Version

+- Pokemon Forever (http://pokemonforever.com)
+-- Forum: POKéMON (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-POK%C3%A9MON)
+--- Forum: Competitive Pokemon Discussion (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Pokemon-Discussion)
+---- Forum: Competitive Discussion Archive (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Discussion-Archive)
+---- Thread: [RATE MY TEAM] First team help (VGC) (/Thread-RATE-MY-TEAM-First-team-help-VGC)

Pages: 1 2

First team help (VGC) - Graftn - Mar 17, 2015

I've assembled this team mostly through trial and error: finding what works and what doesn't and adjusting accordingly. It's hard to say where the team stops being good and where my inexperience with competitive play begins, but I can say that I've done better with this team and felt more in control than I have with any previous attempts at building an at least semi-competitive team. This team was made for doubles.

Tyranitar (M) @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 24 Atk / 96 SpD / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

This is the one that's required the most adjustment, as even with the added bulk I've found that it's more fragile than I'd like. This spread is the most recent and it's worked better than any other I've tried, so I may stick with this. The goal here is pretty straight-forward; lead with mega-dragon dance and hit hard. I put most of the ev's in hp to increase longevity, also by investing some in defense, to get that bulk that allows it to surrive mostly anything but a Play Rough or fighting-type attack. I put a considerable amount into Speed because I want the speed boost from Dance to count, and then put whatever was left on attack just to give it a little boost.

Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Focus Sash Outrage wasn't at all what I intended when I started using this, in fact I wanted to stay away from it, but there's too many ice-type attacks out there for me to be comfortable with anything but Focus Sash, and when timed correctly the drawbacks from Outrage can be overcome since the Sash ensure he won't be one-shot. Since this is doubles, I tend to open with Tyranitar to get the evasion from Sand Veil and do whatever the situation calls for. Like Tyranitar, the with this one is to hit hard and fast, but without the setup.

Ambipom (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double Hit
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

This whole team stems from me just liking Ambipom and wanting to find a way to use him. He seems to do well supporting the other members and filling his role nicely. Not much to say here.

Gardevoir (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 20 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

By this point I had two Fairy weaknesses and two Fighting weaknesses. To cover the fighting problem and add a special-attacker, I thought this would be a nice option. I don't have a Psychic attack on here because after many games I found that it was the attack used least on the entire team, plus I desperately needed some more water and ground coverage, which seemed to be a good decision as Energy Ball has come in handy many times. Rotom-Wash was giving this team big problems before. Will-O-Wisp was a move that I initially removed, but then put back on and regret not at all. When opening with Ambipom's Fake Out and Gardevoir, it generally allows me to instantly put a stop to Kang unless the other person has a counter to that. Even with the fairly low defensive-stats, Gardevoir seems to be rather durable with this spread and Sitrus Berry.

Gastrodon (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 184 HP / 112 Def / 212 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Here is where I start filling in the gaps with anything I can think of. I had no intention to put Gastrodon on this team when I started building it, but it's come in surprisingly handy in almost every situation it's been in. It gets an ice-attack on here which is nice, though not as necessary as I initially thought. It adds another opportunity for Burn (which I never get because rng hates me), and the Ground coverage has done well for handing Aegislash.

Volcarona (F) @ Passho Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

This is me having no idea what to put in the last slot. In addition to Water, Grass was something this team had problems getting over.

Any suggestions would be nice. Like I said, I'm pretty much new to competitive play.

RE: First team help (VGC) - DanielJames - Mar 17, 2015

Take Focus Sash off Garchomp and either use Lum Berry or Choice Scarf instead. Lum Berry can either cure Garchomp of confusion or even cure a burn from Will-O-Wisp. You shouldn't be keeping Garchomp in if it's about to take an Ice-type attack to the face anyways. I wouldn't recommend using Outrage though, as once you're locked into it, your opponent can work around it. Dragon Claw is a little more flexible, but you do lose some power. Choice Scarf would mean that you couldn't run Protect anymore, but does make Garchomp almost impossible to outspeed, which is nice if you can't switch Garchomp out and need to take something down fast.

RE: First team help (VGC) - Marcusube - Mar 17, 2015

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 204 Atk / 132 Def / 12 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Low Kick
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Veil
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dual Chop
- Protect

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Icy Wind
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb

Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 88 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Scald
- Swagger

Scizor @ Rawst Berry
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Def / 24 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Protect
- Tailwind

Mienshao @ Lum Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Low Kick
- U-turn
- Wide Guard

This team works better around your weaknesses while keeping the Tyranitar and Garchomp core. Setting up a Dragon Dance puts you at too much risk as opponents can easily kill you the next turn since you can't one shot or outspeed a good amount of Pokemon that threaten Tyranitar. A more bulky set is efficient for this team

No point in sashing Garchomp, since you will most likely get hit twice. Life Orb gives Garchomp more offensive pressure. Also Outrage is bad since it keeps you stuck for 2-3 turns preventing you from switching out from dangerous threats.

Your team is missing the element of speed control. Gengar provides great support as it can both burn and slow down your opponents as well as attack.

Milotic is here to stop the things that threaten you most from switching in (Landorus, Mamoswine and Weavile). The competitive ability scares Initimidaters such as Landorus from switching in making it easier to do your thing, however, if Landorus gets the switch in you can easily Ice Beam it. The same goes for Mamoswine and Weavile. Swagger is just a means of crippling your opponents or boosting your allies attack stat if you are willing to take the risk.

Scizor is here to bust open those Fairy types that want to run shop on Tyranitar and Garchomp. It is also good for removing berries and scoring strong hits. Tailwind is to give your teammates some speed so they need not to worry about faster mons

Mienshao is here for Fake Out and Wide Guard support and to remove Pokemon like Bisharp, Terrakion and Kang

RE: First team help (VGC) - z2porygon - Mar 17, 2015

Improvements and Suggestions
Tyranitar (Mega): D-Dance needs follow me/Rage Powder support to get one up. Most Fighting moves will OHKO (252 SpA Mega Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 156-188 (75.3 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

236 HP/ 28 Atk / 96 sdef / 148 speed (this way no evs are wasted)

Garchomp: I would suggest Excadrill instead. Mostly the reason is this monster --> [Image: hYRApgy.gif]

Excadrill with Sand Rush is threatening but Garchomp can benefit from sand as well but unlike Daniel I think Focus Sash is necessary. In the end it is your decision to take off Garchomp. Btw Garchomp needs Dragon Claw mostly because Outrage is unpredictable even though it is strong (also double protecting for an opponent can cause confusion putting you even further back).

Also this format calls for surviving Double-Edges from Mega-Kangaskhan:
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 140+ Def Thundurus: 153-182 (82.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 244 HP / 140+ Def Thundurus: 105-124 (56.7 - 67%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
Outrage is not worth the risk.

Gardevoir: Helping Hand and Ally Switch are moves I would recommend since it is support Gardevoir. Maybe bold would be better. Also as you would find, Gastrodon walls Rotom-Wash (for the most part Kappa

), and Energy Ball can let Amoonguss and Mega-Venusaur wall your entire team. So I think Psyshock/Psychic is better.

Ambipom: I would suggest trying to build a new team off this pokemon. Ambipom makes Fighting-types have an easier time against the team. Terrakion, Virizion and Conkelderr are all threats because they can hit at least 3 of the pokemon on the team, Super-Effectively. Since it is one of the most powerful Fake Outs (with Life Orb) next to Mega-Kanga's Kappa

, it is still viable.

Gastrodon: Nice Build. I would suggest a different spread because storm drain boosts and expert belt. 252 HP/ 116 Def / 140 SAtk or (252 HP / 116 Def / 32 Satk / 108 SDef <-- Survives Double-Edge Mega-Kanga and Choice Specs Draco Meteor from Hydreigon;
32+ SpA Expert Belt Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 187-226 (109.3 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO without Storm drain boost)

Volcarona:
I would suggest Charti Berry instead of Passho Berry because Gastrodon already walls Water-Type attacks and pokemon (except for Ludicolo), also I would suggest Flame Body because Swarm without focus sash is very situational (might as well increase your burn chances for that rng Kappa

). Rage Powder, I would consider since you have D-Dance Mega-Tyranitar.

I think Togekiss, Amoonguss, Scizor, or Talonflame may even work as well.

RE: First team help (VGC) - Nocerino23 - Mar 17, 2015

It upsets me to see regenerator Mienshao! Such an under utilised Pokemon. I give mine HJK, fake out, poison jab for fairies and knock off. If you invest in its attack with Reckless ability and a life orb it can OHKO almost anything on a neutral HJK. A lum berry is a waste when it's so fragile. For wide guard support there are better options because it's speed is still only 105. I'd drop swagger for protect for stall but that's personal preference on Milotic and give it leftovers and on gengar protect without disable is a waste too imo so I'd take the shadow ball. All just my opinion though

RE: First team help (VGC) - Marcusube - Mar 17, 2015

Imagine if you mis-predict a protect and you fire off a HJK. That's 50% of your health right there. The Lum Berry is to ensure that Mienshao doesn't get stopped by the frequent Will-O-Wisps, Thunder Waves, Swaggers and Dark Voids. Mienshao is chosen for Wide Guard support because no one expects it. In a metagame based around making plays and reacting quickly, stalling is the last thing you need to be doing here and Sitrus Berry provides a safety cushion in case Milotic gets ganged on, in which case, you can fire off a Swagger and if you get lucky, you can recover the following turn. The Protect/Disable strategy is a good point but to be honest it isn't necessary for this team since the other members can deal with repetitive attacks. Ghost attacks don't check much things that Sludge Bomb doesn't other than opposing Gengars and Aegislash which Tyranitar and Garchomp can take care of with ease.

RE: First team help (VGC) - Graftn - Mar 18, 2015

Thanks for the tips, guys. I've applied a lot of this info to my team, but it's still a work-in-progress.

(Mar 17, 2015, 03:41 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 204 Atk / 132 Def / 12 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Low Kick
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Why Adamant? Not that I disagree, I'm just wondering what your specific reasoning is behind this. And why Low Kick over something like Ice Fang? Also, why not invest more in HP than Atk with the added boost from Adamant?

RE: First team help (VGC) - Marcusube - Mar 19, 2015

I chose Adamant because it really doesn't make sense trying to set up with Tyranitar because a lot can happen in one turn and a turn is best spent attacking than setting up. Low Kick checks what kills Tyranitar (Terrakion, Bisharp, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon) though you can go for Ice Fang to give your team more coverage against Dragons. The attack investment is to allow Tyranitar to put out max damage while absorbing both Special and Physical attacks

RE: First team help (VGC) - tygaa2 - Mar 19, 2015

Specs sylveon will be a huge problem for this team.

RE: First team help (VGC) - Graftn - Mar 19, 2015

(Mar 19, 2015, 12:52 AM)Marcusube Wrote: I chose Adamant because it really doesn't make sense trying to set up with Tyranitar because a lot can happen in one turn and a turn is best spent attacking than setting up. Low Kick checks what kills Tyranitar (Terrakion, Bisharp, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon) though you can go for Ice Fang to give your team more coverage against Dragons. The attack investment is to allow Tyranitar to put out max damage while absorbing both Special and Physical attacks

So is it a general rule of thumb that natures should be used to enhance already good stats, rather than make up for poor ones?