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Anti meta in progress, please help (/Thread-VGC-Anti-meta-in-progress-please-help)Anti meta in progress, please help - bradar485 - Sep 14, 2015
Okay so I've been working on a new team to deal with the obnoxious vgc meta that's been plaguing me. I'm tired of the genies making me face palm all the time, I'm tired of the only mega's being kanga and Gardy and I'm just tired of looking at cresselia. Just in general. Friggin floating pink troll. Friggin genie trolls.
ANYWAYS. I wrote out a list from Pokemon GL of the top guys and what they use and kept in mind my own experience with these way overused minguses and figured out some guys I have that threaten them. So I have been toying around with some guys, but thus far have only decided on five permanent team members. It all started with a serious look at:
![[Image: weavile.gif]](http://www.pokestadium.com/sprites/xy/weavile.gif)
Tina Fey(Weavile)@ focus sash
ability: pickpocket
ev's: 252 ATK 252 SPE 4HP
Adamant Nature
- Fake out/Feint
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
I noticed Weavile while looking for a genie counter. I'm a big fan of fake out and like using the focus sash with pickpocket because she frequently steals an item from the guy that popped her focus sash. She kills Lando and threatens some other very relevant threats. I wanted to form a mini ghost dark core and I am an older player so I am having issues remembering to provide fairy coverage so I decided not to make that mistake and go:
![[Image: gengar.gif]](http://www.pokestadium.com/sprites/xy/gengar.gif)
Nyarlathotep(Gengar)@ life orb
ability: levitate
ev's: 252 SPA 252 SPE and 4SPD
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Taunt
So These two put in some work together. I haven't run a gengar since I was a kid playing pokemon red and am definitely open to criticism on its set. The idea is to put in some damage and carry taunt for the unsuspecting Thundey. Protect is mainly for the vgc style misdirection. Two pokemon in and I didn't think that mega gengar worked for my playstyle or what I was going for. Extreme deliberation led me to:
![[Image: metagross-mega.png]](http://www.pokestadium.com/sprites/xy-fan/shiny/back/metagross-mega.png)
MEGAGROSS(metagross)@Metagrossite
ability: clear body/tough claws
ev's: 252 ATK 252 SPE 4HP
Adamant nature
- Protect
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch/Earthquake.
I have wanted to give megagross a chance for a while now, Plus it is very hard to OHKO in a lot of situations and that appealed to me at this point because my first two picks are a little frail. Ok, they're a big frail, but the megagross does ok. I feel like his main stabs and protect are pretty necessary for his damage output but have been struggling with his coverage move as in play tests both have worked out pretty well. Now the issue with Grossey here is that I've opened myself up for fire damage with two supereffective targets so a water guy is in order.
![[Image: rotom-wash.gif]](http://www.pokestadium.com/sprites/xy/rotom-wash.gif)
W. (rotom w.)@ Leftovers
ability: levitate
ev's: 252HP 44DEF 60SPA 148SPD 4SPE
calm nature
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will o Wisp
I have been good bro's with this Rotom for some time. It's complex ev spread was a rip from smogon becaus of the survived hits it provided. I like running Volt switch for it's flexability. It lets me get rotom out of some grass attacks and bring Gengar or Megagross in to take them. I'm considering changing it's item to a sitris berry but haven't decided yet. With these four picked out I felt threatened by offensive dark pokemon and any speedy shadow balls that might hit gengar. I also wanted an answer to talonflame and something aside from Weavile to handle thundy.
![[Image: terrakion.gif]](http://www.pokestadium.com/sprites/xy/terrakion.gif)
Samson (terrakion)@Lum berry
Ability: Justified
ev's: 252Atk 252SPE 4HP
Nature: um... I forget but my only viable terrakion is neutral natured.
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake/X-Scissor
- Quick Guard
The quick guard really has helped me on this pokemon. I generally avoid legendaries but I just love his type and offensive presence. I figure I'll decide on his coverage move once I get down what to put on megagross since I mainly stick to his stabs. I was running a scarf set originally with the listed moves minus quick guard so I may need to retool his ev's.
And those five are where I'm at. I've been running a prankster sableye with quash/taunt/willowisp/recover but the extra fairy hit hasn't done me any favors and I was hoping to discuss what would be an effective sixth pokemon. One rule: It can't be from the top twelve on the usage boards.
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - Slec - Sep 14, 2015
All these pokemon are in the Meta
. I dont understand how this is anti meta. The only pokemon that can really start an argument is Weavile and its still pretty common
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - bradar485 - Sep 14, 2015
I understand your point of veiw. But These are not the ten or so pokemon I see in three quarters of my battlespot match ups. Since last month the worlds tournaments are really out of hand and that is the specific "inner meta" I'm talking about. I don't need to use like... the most obscure stuff. Just I don't want to be caught up in this singularity that I feel has formed.
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - Black117 - Sep 14, 2015
Trying to counteract the meta with an "anti-meta" team usually doesn't work out too well after a awhile since CHALK usually figures out how to break anti meta...unless it happens to revolve around some Mega Gengar trap team I tried a while ago but fizzled out almost immediately. Well on to the team rate. First off you team has really poor matchup against...CHALK itself. I'm not kidding I could easily see a CHALK trick room team with Heatran, Cresselia and Amoonguss breaking this team relatively well since you don't have much responses. I know for a fact you have Adamant Weavile and LO Taunt Gengar to maybe try to stop the setup but most higher ladder Cresselias usually have Protect now after what happen at Worlds. Of course I'm talking about the more competent players who can manage games accordingly since who knows, maybe you'll face the same team but the other person might be inexperience or just get bailed out by RNG. If they happen to setup TR in any possible way, Cresselia's partners like Kangaskhan and Heatran can and will plow thru this team easily. I would recommend Amoonguss to at least slow them down while in Trick Room and since you have few responses to rain, but you don't want it so there's isn't much else out there. I mean you can try evolite Tangela with Regenerator since it has Sleep Powder and Rage Powder with a strong movepool but if cannot take a hit as much special hits.
The problem I see with this team is that its too reactionary or matchup based, either you are able to catch the opponent off guard with this fast team or you can't. BTW if you happen to lose Gengar or Weavile at any point in the battle, Aegislash will have a field day against Terrakion or Metagross as its able to beat both at will. As a Mega Metagross user will say that you don't have to worry too much about opposing Terrakions since the meta is CHALK atm so a bulkier set can help. For Rotom-W I definitely think Sitrus Berry is the better item at times since a Helping Hand boosted attack can easily knock out Rotom-W. Since your team needs speed control, try out Thunder Wave as it will allow you to outspeed opposing Mega Salamence instead of relying on Will-O-Miss. If you want, try out either Ice Punch on Metagross or Hammer Arm since one will let you hit the Genies hard while the other is coverage for Heatran, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, and Ferrothorn.
Honestly if this were up to me (not taking any biases whatsoever), I'd chose CM Sylveon as the last spot since you team is need of a strong special attacker and you need something else to beat Fighting types in case Mega Metagross goes down.
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - Justin - Sep 14, 2015
(Sep 14, 2015, 09:03 PM)Black117 Wrote: Trying to counteract the meta with an "anti-meta" team usually doesn't work out too well after a awhile since CHALK usually figures out how to break anti meta...unless it happens to revolve around some Mega Gengar trap team I tried a while ago but fizzled out almost immediately. Well on to the team rate. First off you team has really poor matchup against...CHALK itself. I'm not kidding I could easily see a CHALK trick room team with Heatran, Cresselia and Amoonguss breaking this team relatively well since you don't have much responses. I know for a fact you have Adamant Weavile and LO Taunt Gengar to maybe try to stop the setup but most higher ladder Cresselias usually have Protect now after what happen at Worlds. Of course I'm talking about the more competent players who can manage games accordingly since who knows, maybe you'll face the same team but the other person might be inexperience or just get bailed out by RNG. If they happen to setup TR in any possible way, Cresselia's partners like Kangaskhan and Heatran can and will plow thru this team easily. I would recommend Amoonguss to at least slow them down while in Trick Room and since you have few responses to rain, but you don't want it so there's isn't much else out there. I mean you can try evolite Tangela with Regenerator since it has Sleep Powder and Rage Powder with a strong movepool but if cannot take a hit as much special hits.
The problem I see with this team is that its too reactionary or matchup based, either you are able to catch the opponent off guard with this fast team or you can't. BTW if you happen to lose Gengar or Weavile at any point in the battle, Aegislash will have a field day against Terrakion or Metagross as its able to beat both at will. As a Mega Metagross user will say that you don't have to worry too much about opposing Terrakions since the meta is CHALK atm so a bulkier set can help. For Rotom-W I definitely think Sitrus Berry is the better item at times since a Helping Hand boosted attack can easily knock out Rotom-W. Since your team needs speed control, try out Thunder Wave as it will allow you to outspeed opposing Mega Salamence instead of relying on Will-O-Miss. If you want, try out either Ice Punch on Metagross or Hammer Arm since one will let you hit the Genies hard while the other is coverage for Heatran, Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, and Ferrothorn.
Honestly if this were up to me (not taking any biases whatsoever), I'd chose CM Sylveon as the last spot since you team is need of a strong special attacker and you need something else to beat Fighting types in case Mega Metagross goes down.
Nice reply Kev!
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - bradar485 - Sep 14, 2015
I want to acknowledge that that was great feed back but don't have a proper response yet. Except that weavile ous the only one of these pokemon I play with on the regular. I will come back later with something mood constructive
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - bradar485 - Sep 15, 2015
Ok Black... or Kev... or whatever you'd like to go by. Sir. Ok sir, you obviously have your shazbaz together so I respect this a lot. I have been running a M-heracross team but my support isn't quite right and I've been getting destroyed by the double genie lead and mega gardy much more than most other teams I faced. I have been playing pokemon for many years but have only just gotten into competitive play so I'm not too proud to admit I need a little guidance. So if I shifted gears back to heracross, who I have a lot of play time with and am pretty comfortable with I need to figure out a better support option.
What are your thoughts on running a bulkier m-heracross with tailwind support?
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - Black117 - Sep 15, 2015
To be honest I don't have much experience from using Mega Heracross in doubles mainly because it requires a bit too much support for it to function well. For Mega Heracross to "work", you need to commit to providing the necessary support from partners who can stand toe-to-toe against (at least) Mega Salamence, Sylveon, Aegislash, and Talonflame. Probably the best example of this is from Rogue and Naitre's Mega Heracross since they used a Trick Room Mega Heracross to great success. The only problem is the team is relatively old so I'm not so sure how well it can deal with the meta and it uses some of the 'standard' pokemon you see in doubles. Tailwind is honestly much riskier since your opponent can easily just paralyze you or just stall our tailwind turns with careful switching or protects plays. Of course this is where you need to strike against the enemy team since Tailwind won't last as long as Trick Room. We would like to see what you have for your Mega Heracross tailwind team in a future post so we can critique i.
RE: Anti meta in progress, please help - bradar485 - Sep 15, 2015
hm. hm. hm. That is solid. I have run mega harry for some time and have thus far avoided tailwind support because of some of the reasons you have cited. The only tailwind pokemon that I ever have trouble shutting down before it gets the wind going is zapdos. It seems like it's usually a burden to set up with certain exceptions and if trick room hits it does get wrecked....
This has been super productive for me. I do not regret obtaining the pokemon that I had to breed for this team despite the fact that I'm probably not going to run them together anymore. I might get a lot of use out of the gengar and maybe I'll eventually get some rain going and give megagross another shot(honestly though I just don't have it in me right now to start breeding poliwag).
I'll be back over the next week's time to post the new team to see if anyone has anymore advice or just voyeuristic joy looking at it XD