+- Pokemon Forever (http://pokemonforever.com)
+-- Forum: POKéMON (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-POK%C3%A9MON)
+--- Forum: Competitive Pokemon Discussion (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Pokemon-Discussion)
+---- Forum: Competitive Discussion Archive (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Discussion-Archive)
+---- Thread: [REQUEST] Follow me Blastoise EV spread (/Thread-REQUEST-Follow-me-Blastoise-EV-spread)
Follow me Blastoise EV spread - Aether - Sep 21, 2015
So I'm introducing Blastoise into my team as a bit of redirection as it works quite well as a chalk counter. I've done the calcs but with Blastoise's it''s difficult to cover all milestones, so I really just wanted some feedback on what EV's [and maybe moves] to run (descriptions below).
So this is essentially the build:
Blastoise @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Torrent [Follow me Blastoise as far as I know cannot have Rain dish]
EV's: Below
Bold nature
- Follow me
- Protect
- Scald
- Ice beam [Maybe dark pulse]
EV Milestones:
Offensive
Lando-T: 0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 144-172 (87.2 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO [After Rocky helmet damage, 18.8% chance to OHKO w/out]
The opposite end of the scale: 252 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 96-116 (48.9 - 59.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
Should I spec more into SpA to counter ***-V Lando T?
Thundurus: 48 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 76-90 (49 - 58%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
Gengar (seems to be becoming more popular in VGC 16): 0 SpA Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 68-80 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [Even with full SpA investment still a 2HKO]
Should D-pulse replace ice beam or scald?
44 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 84-98 (50.2 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Milestone: needs at least 44 SpA to 2HKO Heatran
Defensive
Mega-Kangaskhan:
Return is always a 2HKO regardless of investment.
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 92-110 (49.4 - 59.1%) -- 100% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Blastoise: 118-141 (76.6 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
To counter Double edge however, Blastoise needs at least 76 HP to prevent OHKO
Mega- Gardevoir
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Blastoise: 76-91 (40.8 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Blastoise needs at least the above to survive two psychics
Thundurus
252+ SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 158 SpD Blastoise: 134-162 (72 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So this is the set I'm leaning towards:
Blastoise @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 44 SpA / 148 SpD
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect
- Follow Me
Blastoise @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Torrent
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 44 SpA / 148 SpD
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect
- Follow Me
At least a 2HKO from all of the aforementioned threats, whilst still maintaining some offensive pressure.
Have I forgotten any major threats / Can this be improved? Obviously this needs actual testing for viability and I'll update it along the way, hopefully ending with a build submission. Until then any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - Aether - Sep 21, 2015
Forgot to put:
132 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 168-200 (101.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
132 SpA investment OHKO's Landy, is this investment worth it?
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - GiMYz - Sep 21, 2015
You can achieve the same stats but with 1 more point in SpD and Spe with this EV spread:
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 44 SpA / 52 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
I don't think the SpA investment is really worth it, considering that you can get at least a 2HKO on any variant (Assault Vest included) also without investment. 4 HP Lando-T is a dated benchmark at the moment - in my opinion.
0 SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 140 HP / 44 SpD Assault Vest Landorus-T: 92-112 (50.5 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
At this point we can invest the SpA EVs into something else, depending on your team. If you have an Intimidate support in your team, you can afford to move those EVs in Special Defence (1):
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Blastoise: 156-187 (83.8 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
..or you can take advantage of that Rocky Helmet by making it physically bulky (2):
-1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Blastoise: 76-92 (40.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(1) EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Calm Nature
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Blastoise: 75-91 (40.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
148+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Blastoise: 84-98 (45.1 - 52.6%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO
60 SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Blastoise: 92-110 (49.4 - 59.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
44+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Blastoise: 124-146 (66.6 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(2) EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Blastoise: 120-142 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Blastoise: 86-104 (46.2 - 55.9%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Blastoise: 144-176 (77.4 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - Aether - Sep 21, 2015
Thank you, this is perfect feedback and exactly the type I was looking for
The 44 SpA was more for dealing with Heatran, do you not think this is needed? And is the 196 Def really worth it? Considering that Rocky helmet does 1/6 max HP damage, i.e a 3HKO from a kang is also a self knock out.
Thank you for your feedback, I really am grateful (even if I do have some questions).
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - GiMYz - Sep 21, 2015
If your team relies on Blastoise to KO Heatran, then you can also invest those 44 SpA EVs to get a guaranteed 2HKO with Scald.
Keep in mind that Blastoise is relatively slow and you should not plan on using it to attack unless you are sure it's the best choice. You already put a lot of pressure on opposing Heatran, Lando-T and other Ground and Fire types simply staying on the field thanks to your typing and bulk: there's no way they want to stay in front of Blastoise (same with Suicune or Milotic). Its primary role as Follow Me user should be redirecting any Water, Ice, Fire and Steel type attacks from its partner, which must be able to deal massive damage on your opponent's team in the meantime (dealing with Blastoise's threats if possible).
M-Salamence for example can work really well with Blastoise, since it offers Intimidate support before mega evolving and it can also OHKO any Grass type in the game, while Blastoise can redirect any Ice type attack. You can complete this core with a pokemon that is able to deal with Thundurus (which is a threat to both M-Mence and Blastoise).. and both Terrakion and Tyranitar may fit in this core, thanks to their STAB Rock Slide. Blastoise can redirect any Water, Steel and Fighting type attack from them.
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - Pokeventurer - Sep 21, 2015
i think you should consider sitrus berry, if u wanna run some sp.atk, to complement the bulk and also survive kang and other attacks.
RE: Follow me Blastoise EV spread - Aether - Sep 21, 2015
(Sep 21, 2015, 11:16 AM)GMX Wrote: If your team relies on Blastoise to KO Heatran, then you can also invest those 44 SpA EVs to get a guaranteed 2HKO with Scald.
Keep in mind that Blastoise is relatively slow and you should not plan on using it to attack unless you are sure it's the best choice. You already put a lot of pressure on opposing Heatran, Lando-T and other Ground and Fire types simply staying on the field thanks to your typing and bulk: there's no way they want to stay in front of Blastoise (same with Suicune or Milotic). Its primary role as Follow Me user should be redirecting any Water, Ice, Fire and Steel type attacks from its partner, which must be able to deal massive damage on your opponent's team in the meantime (dealing with Blastoise's threats if possible).
M-Salamence for example can work really well with Blastoise, since it offers Intimidate support before mega evolving and it can also OHKO any Grass type in the game, while Blastoise can redirect any Ice type attack. You can complete this core with a pokemon that is able to deal with Thundurus (which is a threat to both M-Mence and Blastoise).. and both Terrakion and Tyranitar may fit in this core, thanks to their STAB Rock Slide. Blastoise can redirect any Water, Steel and Fighting type attack from them.
Ah fair, my team does have a few ways to KO (and OHKO) heatran. The team actually does revolve around a M-Mence and T-tar core (I see we think alike), so the redirection is invaluable. Thank you for your advice!
252+ Atk Tyranitar Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Thundurus: 180-212 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO [Even against a physically bulky Thundurus, old generation Tyranitar still wrecks Thundurus]