[VGC] RMT: Mega-Scizor - Printable Version

RMT: Mega-Scizor - Printable Version

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RMT: Mega-Scizor (/Thread-VGC-RMT-Mega-Scizor)

RMT: Mega-Scizor - poison_jr - Oct 30, 2015

Hello everyone. This is my first real post here. I came to this place with the intentions of getting better at VGC, at least good enough to put up a fight at local events and regionals with the top goal being competing at nationals and hopefully doing well! This is the team I've been running through Showdown, I think I peaked at around 1400 before I went on tilt and dipped down pretty low. I currently hover around 1300. I'll list the Pokemon and an explanation as to why I chose them and maybe I can get some feedback from y'all.

This team is made to be a "control" team, focused on disrupting the opponent and picking off threats. It was inspired by Baz Anderson's 2015 worlds team. Beforehand, I would like to mention I am aware of the lack of Protect on my team, and I understand that that is typically a big no-no in doubles. I like to play high-risk high-reward style and I feel like this team is that philosophy incarnate.

Also, here is the resistance chart from http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder with my team plugged in.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Adamant / Technician
236 HP / 92 Atk / 24 Def / 156 SpDef / 16 Spe
-Bullet Punch
-Knock Off
-Swords Dance
-Protect

OFFENSIVE:
*2HKO defensively bulky Sylveon even after intimidate w/ Bullet Punch*
*High chance of 1HKO on Mega-Gardevoir after a Fake Out or Feint w/ Bullet Punch*
*2HKO Cresselia after Swords Dance w/ Knock Off*
*1HKO Aegislash-Shield with Knock Off after Swords Dance*

DEFENSIVE:
*Choice Specs Sylveon Hyper Voice is always a 3HKO*
*Aegislash Shadow Ball is always a 3HKO*
*Mega-Kangaskhan Double Edge has %15.7 chance to be a 4HKO, otherwise 3HKO*

This is Baz Anderson's VGC 2015 Mega-Scizor that he brought to Worlds. I am actually not quite sure why he used this exact spread, but I went ahead and found some nice offensive/defensive benchmarks for it. I would really like suggestions on this spread. Without knowing Baz Anderson's intentions with this build, I feel like I am running Scizor sub-optimally. I tried fiddling with the EVs a bit before, like I gave it less speed because I was having trouble with trick room teams and I pumped the rest of the IVs into attack, but it didn't help me KO anything that I couldn't already.

I chose to run Mega-Scizor because it is a Mega that I personally like and like to use. Mega-Scizor isn't threatened by much, especially a burned or intimidated physical attacker, allowing it to set up in the face of many opponents. After a set up, Scizor excels at picking off weakened targets with it's Bullet Punch and does massive damage to enemies still holding items with Knock Off. I chose to run Knock Off over Bug Bite because Knock Off is ALWAYS useful, where as Bug Bite can be situational.

Liepard @ Black Glasses
Prankster / Jolly
158 HP / 100 Def / 252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Foul Play
-Fake Tears
-Encore

OFFENSIVE:
*100% 1HKO on 4 HP / 252 Atk Mega-Kangaskhan after Swagger w/ Black Glasses Foul Play*
*High chance to 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye after Swagger w/ Black Glasses Foul Play*
*100% 1HKO 4 HP / 252 Atk Mega-Salamence after Swagger w/ Black Glasses Foul Play*

DEFENSIVE:
*Liepard is very frail. It survives many physical attacks and some special with a bit of bulk investment, but not much else.*

This Liepard set is also a part of Baz Anderson's Worlds 2015 team. I'm not exactly sure what the 158 HP / 100 Def spread is supposed to achieve, but the bulk has done wonders so far, allowing Liepard to survive much longer than it should. Maximum speed is a must. Liepards speed is it's best offense and defense, allowing it to take care of threats before they are able to act. Most notably, Liepard is the fastest Prankster user, besides Thundurus and I believe Whimsicott, and is faster than most other Fake Out users besides Weavile. This also allows Liepard to outspeed Adamant 252 Spe Mega-Salamence.

The moveset is fairly self-explanatory. Fake Out is for threat neutralization and disruption. Foul Play is a potent attack alongside Swagger and stops Liepard form being useless under Taunt. Fake Tears sets up Thundurus/Infernape/Milotic to get 1HKOs they wouldn't normally. In fact there is not a whole lot that a Life Orb Thunderbolt form Thundurus on a -2 SpDef can't 1HKO. Encore is for disruption and control. Common Encore targets are Protect, Fake Out, Trick Room, or any set up moves but it can be used for much more depending on the situation. For example, locking a bulky water tank into Ice Beam, allowing Scizor to set up without fear of Scald.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Prankster / Timid
4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power: Ice
-Thunder Wave
-Swagger

OFFENSIVE:
*1HKO Heatran after Fake Tears w/ Thunderbolt*
*1HKO offensive Thundurus after Fake Out w/ Thunderbolt*
*1HKO non-Assault Vest Landorus w/ Hidden Power: Ice*
*1HKO 4 HP Mega-Salamence w/ Hidden Power: Ice*

DEFENSIVE:
*Again, this Thundurus is made to disrupt, not survive hits. All stat investments are put into offensive stats.*

This is a very standard Thundurus set, so I wont say I took it from Baz Anderson's team. But I did get the inspiration to pair Liepard+Thundurus together from Baz, along with Scizor! The EVs are pretty standard. 0 Atk and 30 Def IVs minimize Thundurus' attack to take as little damage from opposing Swagger's and Foul Plays as possible and allow Thundurus to maintain HP: Ice.

The moveset is also incredibly standard. Not much to talk about. The only really special thing to mention here is that there is a lot of synergy here with Liepard, specifically Swagger/Foul Play and Fake Tears/Thunderbolt OR HP: Ice.

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Blaze / Naive
158 Atk / 100 SpAtk / 252 Spe
-Fake Out
-Overheat
-Close Combat
-Feint

OFFENSIVE:
*1HKO 4 HP Mega-Kangaskhan after Fake Out w/ Close Combat*
*1HKO 252 HP Amoonguss after Fake Tears w/ Overheat*
*1HKO 252 HP Amoonguss w/ Blaze activated Overheat*
*1HKO 252 HP Aegislash-Shield w/ Blaze activated Overheat*

DEFENSIVE:
*Like Liepard and Thundurus, Infernape is an offensive control Pokemon. It is not meant to survive any hits. Kang Sucker Punch is probably the only really relevant calculation.
*252 Atk Mega-Kangaskhan Sucker Punch is always a 3HKO, 2HKO after taking Fake Out*

Infernape is probably the oddest choice here. A lot of people ask me why I use Infernape over Blaziken. Honestly, at first, the answer was because I simply dislike Blaziken but LOVE Infernape. But after testing both a bit, I have at least a few reasons to justify the choice. I will try my best to explain this concisely.

First of all, Infernape provides a second Fake Out which is very useful considering the ONLY Pokemon on my team that runs Protect is Mega-Scizor. I realized if I ran Blaziken, I would have another option for Protect BUT BEAR WITH ME. The second reason to not run Blaziken is because I feel like Blaziken needs to run Life Orb to get the most out of it. A lot of people tell me Blaziken can NEARLY 1HKO Amoonguss or NEARLY 1HKO this and that. This leads me to my third reason--Blaze. Blaziken has more offensive power front-loaded into it, but lacks Infernape's speed. Therefore it needs to run Speed Boost and almost ALWAYS has to Protect the first turn it is out, losing momentum in certain situations. Infernape is innately very fast, allowing it to run Blaze. Infernape functions best when he survives with low HP after sash. He is extremely fast and hits most anything in the meta INCREDIBLY hard with Overheat while Blaze is activated. I get so giddy when Infernape hits sash, it means his true power has been unlocked. The final reason is because I prefer Close Combat to Superpower. Close Combat allows Infernape to constantly assert offensive pressure without having to switch out to reset his stats. Both Overheat and Superpower drop offensive stats on Blaziken, which I don't think is ideal considering the fast but fragile nature of my team.

The last thing worth mentioning is Feint. Feint is fantastic. Mega-Gardevoir trying to pop Protect to avoid that Bullet Punch? Feint. M-Charizard popping protect to avoid a Rock Slide? Feint. Good stuff. Feint has the power to completely reverse the moment of battle in a single turn, emphasizing the high-risk high-reward gameplay I strive for with this team.

More than anything, I love this set because I put it together from scratch myself and it does everything I need it to do.

Milotic @ Kee Berry
Competetive / Bold
236 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpAtk / 12 SpDef / 4 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Icy Wind
-Recover

OFFENSIVE:
*Not sure about what this spread is supposed to achieve.*

DEFENSIVE:
*Not sure what this spread is supposed to achieve.*

Alright, I'll come clean. This spread was given to me by a generous soul over at the Showdown VGC chat room. He never told me what the spread was supposed to achieve, but I have never used Milotic before and I'm not sure where it's stats are meant to be allocated. The Pokemon I had in this slot before Milotic was Assault Vest Azumarill but I found that I needed a defensive pivot, and chose Milotic as I was also susceptible to Intimidate. I also needed a way to inflict Burn, though it wasn't a necessary option.

I chose to use Kee Berry and Recover because I wanted Milotic to be something I could leave out on the field to constantly apply pressure. Optimal conditions leave Milotic with +2 SpAtk and +1 Def, making it a juggernaut on the field. Not much cant comfortably eat a +2 SpAtk Scald, and even fewer can handle taking a Burn from such a hard hitting Scald.

Milotic is a mainstay on the team and improves many matchups, though I would appreciate help with a more centralized spread that I understand. I am also more than willing to compromise it's item/nature/moveset.

Landorus (Therian Forme) @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate / Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Superpower
-U-Turn

OFFENSIVE:
*1HKO bulky Mega-Charizard Y w/ Rock Slide*
*1HKO bulky Heatran w/ Earthquake*
*43.8% chance to 1HKO 4 HP Mega-Kangaskhan w/ Superpower*
*2HKO bulky Sylveon w/ Earthquake*

DEFENSIVE:
*252 Atk Mega-Kangaskhan Return is always a 3HKO after Intimidate*
*Survives Choice Specs 252 SpAtk Sylveon Hyper Voice*

This was the last slot I had to fill for this team, and I tried many many different things here. I tried Amoonguss, Sylveon, Ferrothorn, Conkeldurr and many more and found that I just couldn't find what I needed. Then I though, "What kind of control team has no Intimidate or any reliable form of Burn?" So then I tried out Arcanine and Gyarados. Neither really fit the bill. So I bit the bullet and did the one thing I never wanted to do--run double genies. And I have to say I don't regret it.

Landorus, specifically Scarf Lando-T, exerts IMMEDIATE offensive presence with no need for set up at all. I also appreciate the ability to shuffle Intimidates. There's not a whole lot to say here ... this is a pretty standard, splashable Landorus. I was running Assault Vest on him, but switched to Choice Scarf just very recently and I have to say I like the Scarf better.

Alright guys, please tear it apart. Tell me why my spreads are bad or why I should be running CHALK. Tell me the reasons why I should use Blaziken over Infernape. Let me know I'm not running enough Protect. The one thing I ask is that if you suggest I change something, please provide me an alternative! You don't have to ... but it would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!

RE: RMT: Mega-Scizor - bradar485 - Oct 30, 2015

I've never been a fan of mega scizor because it's just.... bigger scizor. That being said he looks really cool and I think you've nailed his set if you're going to use him on the battlespot doubles or vgc... whatevs. I would probably want to run the bug bite on him but I can see the utility and coverage of knock off being a lot more useful. Especially without any other knock off characters on the team.

The biggest issue I have is the liepard. I just... don't like it. And the item... surely there has to be something else? I'm sort of dependent on certain guys from overplaying them BUT I'd consider running:

[Image: 302.gif]

Sableye@ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EV's: I've been playing with different ev spreads on my sableye and really I usually go 252HP, 252SPD and 4DEF since will o wisp will cut attackers down but if you want to keep running foul play and also quash you might want to put a substantial amount in its DEF.
-Foul Play/Will-o-wisp
-Fake Out
-Quash/will-o-wisp
-Recover

I like him as a support character, he gets respectably bulky and usually has some staying power. Quash is a good speed control but with all the fake out and thundurus on your team maybe that wouldn't be necessary for you and you could put will o wisp in that slot.

Just an idea.

RE: RMT: Mega-Scizor - Black117 - Oct 31, 2015

First off, I'd like to applaud you for using different teams from accomplish players since if you are trying to get into the VGC format. Most players will often base their first teams off of other successful ones so they can figure out how it functions in battle. I heard many things about Baz Anderson's Mega Scizor team and how it revolves around mostly with Liepard-Breloom-Tthundurus to disrupt the opponent and allows Scizor to setup with Sword Dance. From this I can tell this team is mostly hyper offensive since it relies on predicting what the opponent will do turns ahead and punishing them while maintaining momentum throughout the battle. To me this team reminds me a bit of using Mega Gardevoir-Infernape (pretty much my only experience using Infernape in VGC) though with Life Orb Thundurus and Fake Tears Liepard. Quite honestly I find LO Thundurus incredibly powerful in this metagame since most Landorus-T aren't opting for Scarf sets though with AV. Liepard can just take away the AV special defense boost so Thundurus can easily OHKO it with HP Ice as mentioned. Honestly as far as the "lack of protect", I will say this: just know what exactly you're doing in the battle. Your team is still considerable frail to the point most super effective attacks can OHKO key member like a Mach Punch from Breloom on Liepard or a Flamethrower on Mega Scizor.

If there is any minor changes, the Milotic set can be optimized with the following shown but the only difference here is Maranga Berry over Kee Berry since this will allow Milotic to take special attacker much better while still having the chance to Scald can burn any physical attackers to make up for the Kee Berry. I'd have protect on Milotic so it can act as a pivot/scout against the opposing team though you will have to chose between Icy Wind or Ice Beam for the secondary coverage.

Milotic @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Icy Wind / Ice Beam
- Recover
- Protect

As far as threats are concern, Rain is a difficult matchup on paper especially if the opponent has an offensive lead and Scarf Politoed. Milotic is the only Pokemon who would want to take most rain-boosted Water-type attacks though the opponent may have a Electric-/Grass-type like Thundurus, Ferrothorn, Ludicolo, etc who beat your Water-type. Thundurus is almost essential in this battle as with Liepard's help can OHKO most of these rain-based Pokemon. Sand teams with fast Rock Slides can be somewhat annoying to face since Tyranitar + Excadrill can beat a Liepard Thundurus lead with the potential flinches. Tyranitar can survive a LO Thundurus's Thunderbolt after the Fake Tears drop and can OHKO it back with Rock Slide + Sand damage. Mega Salamence is again annoying end-game mon if you don't have either Liepard, Milotic , or Thundurus around as its free to hit the rest of your Pokemon and even hit Mega Scizor hard with fire coverage. For Trick Room, your Scizor threatens most TR setters as well as Liepard/Inferape who can easily Fake Out to buy Scizor time to setup.

I don't blame you that Baz's team core of Liepard/Mega Scizor/Thundurus is rather high-risk and reward and its basically comes down to if your team is going to make the correct call. Probably the only thing I'd like to point out is Mega Scizor cannot OHKO Sylveon or Mega Gardevoir without the Sword Dance boost and some teams might carry Amoonguss go for redirection. Note that your opponents will likely play aggressively against this type of team so counteract their plays keep offensive momentum going.

RE: RMT: Mega-Scizor - poison_jr - Nov 2, 2015

(Oct 30, 2015, 08:09 PM)bradar485 Wrote: [snip]

Thank you for the suggestion! I don't think Sableye is a good fit for the team given Sableye is a defensive utility Pokemon and my team leans towards the aggressively offensive side, hence the choice to use Liepard. I don't have much use for Quash on my team anyway, which I feel like is Sableye's strongest points. Black Glasses is used to maximize Foul Play damage. The only other item I could see being useful is Safety Goggles or Focus Sash, one of which is already being used and the other, Safety Goggles, is very situational.

I have, though, been considering M-Gardevoir over Scizor and running Scizor with Goggles or Choice Band.

(Oct 31, 2015, 12:03 PM)Black117 Wrote: [snip]

Thank you very much for all of the insight. It's funny how you were able to point out a lot of things about my team that I didn't necessarily understand/realized myself. I will use that Milotic set. I might also take a page from your book and use M-Gardevoir and putting Knock Off on Landorus-T instead, as well as reinstate Breloom in place of Infernape. I'd have to tinker with calcs and compositions first of course, but I like the options now.

RE: RMT: Mega-Scizor - bradar485 - Nov 2, 2015

(Nov 2, 2015, 01:05 PM)poison_jr Wrote:
(Oct 30, 2015, 08:09 PM)bradar485 Wrote: [snip]
Thank you for the suggestion! I don't think Sableye is a good fit for the team given Sableye is a defensive utility Pokemon and my team leans towards the aggressively offensive side, hence the choice to use Liepard. I don't have much use for Quash on my team anyway, which I feel like is Sableye's strongest points. Black Glasses is used to maximize Foul Play damage. The only other item I could see being useful is Safety Goggles or Focus Sash, one of which is already being used and the other, Safety Goggles, is very situational.

I have, though, been considering M-Gardevoir over Scizor and running Scizor with Goggles or Choice Band.

Yeah we have different playstyles for sure. And I accept and applaud your argument.