[RATE MY TEAM] Hyper Offense Featuring Pheromosa and Tapu Lele!

[mmathewsVGC]

Hello All! Thanks for taking a look at my team, means a lot :3

I am new to VGC but I am not new to competitive Pokemon and I have been playing singles since X&Y, but I am new to the doubles mindset.

--DISCLAIMER-- I am new to the site, so I don't know how to do cool stuff, so this will have to do

My showdown username: mmathewsVGC Current team is: 43-23
 

1. Pheromosa: Naughty Nature; Fightinium Z
252 Atk 20 HP 236 Spe
Role: Offensive "Jabber"
Moves: High Jump Kick, Protect, Ice Beam, Poison Jab

My current set is the mixed version on Showdown, however I do not have a Naughty Pheromosa, so the Jolly Natured one my little brother gave me has to do   . My current EVs are set for max Atk and enough speed EVs to outspeed max speed Tapu Koko. Pheromosa's job is to "jab" my opponents team and do good damage and keep pressure. She is fast and strong, and can pick up 2 kills; 1 with a Z-Move High Jump Kick and another with a good type advantage. Poison Jab is there for coverage, High Jump Kick for STAB, and Lunge is also for STAB. 

Fightinium Z is in case I need to sacrifice Pheromosa to get a trade or to annihilate any Porygon2 or Celesteelas around:

+1 252+ Atk Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (195 BP) vs. 228 HP / 116 Def Celesteela: 246-291 (122.3 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Pheromosa All-Out Pummeling (195 BP) vs. 244 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 254-300 (132.9 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The main reasons for the EV setup is: enough speed to outspeed Koko, highest atk possible, and rest are for HP so it can take a resisted hit such as EQ or another Fighting move.
 

2. Tapu Lele: Modest Nature; Choice Scarf
252 SpAtk 52 HP 34 SpDef 170 Spe
Role: Special Offensive Sweeper or "Jabber"
Moves: Psychic, Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam, Thunderbolt

Tapu Lele can be Pheromosa's partner, however Lele is most likely used as a strong lategame sweeper and abuse for the Psychic Terrain to disable Prankster and Fake Out.

Psychic is Lele's main STAB attack, Moonblast also STAB, Dazzling Gleam if I need to hit both of my opponents pokemon, and T-bolt for coverage against C-steela. 

Lele's EVs are made for her to outspeed a 203 Pheromosa, and full EVs in SpAtk to knock out a Garchomp with Moonblast:

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Garchomp: 186-222 (86.5 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Nihilego: 104-126 (48.1 - 58.3%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 244 HP / 76+ SpD Arcanine: 127-150 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tapu Bulu: 73-87 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

And the HP EVs to live moves (w/ Intimidate Up):

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 54 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 112-133 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

DISCLAIMER!!!! THE PIC ABOVE ISN'T DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE SETUP I USE
(I just thought it was funny)

3. Salamence: Timid Nature; Dragonium Z; Intimidate
48 HP 4 Def 204 SpAtk 252 Spe
Role: Special Offensive Support/Nuke Dropper
Moves: Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Protect, Substitute

Salamence is in my top all-time favorites, and my second favorite pseudo-legend (Garchomp too OP). In VGC, Mence has access to Intimidate, a powerful ability that can let my mons live the most craziest hits:

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 125-148 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 108-127 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola: 86-102 (58.1 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 108-127 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 48 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 143-172 (81.2 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

For the EVs, the HP and Def is so I can live a Dragon Claw from Garchomp, and murder the opposing Garchomp with a Meteor:

204 SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 218-258 (118.4 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Draco Meteor is my STAB, Flamethrower is for coverage, Substitute to outplay my opponents and for more protection with Salamence. With a Sub up, I can live 1 more move and then fire a Z-Move Draco Meteor on anything in my way.
 

4. A-Ninetales: Timid Nature; Focus Sash; Snow Warning
4 HP 28 Def 212 SpAtk 12 Spd 252 Spe
Role: Hail Setter
Moves: Protect, Freeze Dry, Blizzard, Aurora Veil

I use a hyper offensive setup, splashing Protect to allow for more safety as thing doge does real good work with Weather changing, Blizzard spam, and Aurora Veil setup. Blizzard and Freeze Dry are my main STABs and spamming Blizzard in the hail makes me giggle inside. Aurora Veil is so my team can last longer against bulkier teams, and Sash allows me to either get a hit off with Blizzard and then Aurora Veil, or the other way around.

-1 252+ Atk Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 84-100 (56.7 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I use basic EVs, most speed possible to outspeed Garchomp, and enough SpAtk possible to dish out as much damage as possible. The Spd is to make Ninetales live longer: 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs 4 HP /12 SpD Alolan Ninetales in Psychic Terrain: 126-148 (845-99.3%) guaranteed 2HKO

Def EVs: 252 Atk Koko Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 28 Def Alolan Ninetales in Electric Terrain: 129-153 (86.5 - 102.6%) 12.5% chance to OHKO

5. A-Muk: Adamant Nature; Iapapa Berry; Gluttony
208 HP 252 Atk 44 Def 4 Spd
Role: Bulky Support
Moves: Knock Off, Poison Jab, Shadow Sneak, Protect

I knew I needed more bulk in my team, so my last 2 were strong bulky mons.

Knock Off and Poison Jab are my main STABs, and Shadow Sneak is to clean up. Protect is a must need through testing to allow for Muk to survive longer.

The EV set up for Muk is kind of custom made:

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 208 HP / 4 SpD Muk-Alola: 81-96 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 208 HP / 44 Def Muk-Alola: 134-162 (65 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 208 HP / 44 Def Muk-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 67-81 (32.5 - 39.3%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 208 HP / 4 SpD Muk-Alola in Rain: 126-148 (61.1 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 208 HP / 4 SpD Muk-Alola in Electric Terrain: 94-112 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

So Muk can take a lot of hits :3

6. Snorlax: Brave Nature; Figy Berry; Gluttony
68 HP 196 Atk 244 Def
Role: Bulky Support, TR Abuser
Moves: Curse, Return, High Horsepower, Recycle

Snorlax is partly because I lost to a friends TR team, but I use Snorlax now because he is extremely slow and can abuse opposing TR setters. After a Curse or 2, Snorlax deals a ton of power with its STAB Return or High Horsepower for Coverage:

+1 196+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 154-183 (106.2 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Tapu Fini: 106-126 (59.8 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Oranguru: 124-147 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax Return vs. 244 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 81-96 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

+1 196+ Atk Snorlax High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Marowak-Alola: 140-166 (83.8 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax High Horsepower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 174-206 (119.1 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 182-216 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 196+ Atk Snorlax High Horsepower vs. 220 HP / 36 Def Metagross: 118-140 (64.4 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Defensively;

252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 68 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 208-246 (85.2 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 68 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 136-162 (55.7 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 68 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 169-201 (69.2 - 82.3%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery
252+ Atk Arcanine Inferno Overdrive (190 BP) vs. 68 HP / 244 Def Snorlax: 165-195 (67.6 - 79.9%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery

Additionally, Snorlax is able to come in on a hard switch, take a hit, eat his berry, and then recycle the berry on the next turn. Snorlax is then able to setup via Curse and heal with Recycle, getting Figy Berry back for Gluttony to use again.

Here are some replays of me wrecking kids or making stupid plays and getting lucky:


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-537076471


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-537079934


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-537081856


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-537083845


Thanks for looking at my team! I will keep updating you guys with my team and editing it daily.

[mmathewsVGC]

Bumpity bumbing bump bump

[Black117]

Haven't yet commented on the team itself, though there are some issues I've had with it concerning some key members. Starting off with the good, do see Pheromosa and Tapu Lele pairing really well atm granted based on their Hyper Offensive nature (hence the team), though it can be improved. Like for Pheromosa, give it Ice Beam to at least be able to threaten opposing Garchomp. Yes it might involve trying to find a Pheromosa with a mixed nature, but at least try it out on Showdown since its honestly much better and there's little drawbacks due to its paper thin defenses. Choice Scarf Lele is decent, though I feel an offensive item such as Specs or Psychinium Z can at least allow it to hit its targets far harder and be far more threatening.

Honestly, Salamence is the most expendable member of this team, not going to lie. While it had its time in the sun early on, I just don't see it doing reasonably well given 1) Tapu Fini and 2) Tapu Fini. In a seriousness, Salemence can't do much if Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain is up as it will halve all Dragon-type attack to grounded Pokemon by 50%, thus making things like Z-Draco Meteor almost useless. You have to maneuver around Tapu Lele to make sure Misty Terrain is up, but at that point, its move of a hassle to attempt as your Pokemon take unnecessary damage against potential Fairy-type on the fields.

If anything, Gyarados makes for a better replacement as you still have the Intimidate options, and with Ninetales Aurora Veil you can setup Dragon Dances against your opponent. This can also help alleviate your weaknesses to Fire and Water-types as Gyarados can at least take on some of them while still spread intimidate drops against the opposing teams. With Ninetales, the moveset is relatively fine, though consider Freeze Dry if you want to hit opposing Water-types and avoid getting Wide Guarded by the opponent.

Regarding Alolan Muk, the lack of protect concerns me as there's no reason not to have it, especially when using it in conjunction with Imprison. Thing about Imprison is that you block the opponent from using Protect as well as long as your Muk is on the field, which can be extremely advantageous. Another move Alolan Muk can utilize is Taunt since there's honestly few Pokemon on your team that stops potential hard Trick Room, or any setup based strategies. Lastly Snorlax, though standard, is rather effectively in what it does as a TR counter, but will ask how effective its been since it could be replaced honestly.

Well that's my rate for the team. Was going to comment about it early but had things going on so yeah.

Lastly, Snorlax is rather interesting on a team like this, but given your lack of

[mmathewsVGC]

(Mar 1, 2017, 08:51 PM)Black117 Wrote: Haven't yet commented on the team itself, though there are some issues I've had with it concerning some key members. Starting off with the good, do see Pheromosa and Tapu Lele pairing really well atm granted based on their Hyper Offensive nature (hence the team), though it can be improved. Like for Pheromosa, give it Ice Beam to at least be able to threaten opposing Garchomp. Yes it might involve trying to find a Pheromosa with a mixed nature, but at least try it out on Showdown since its honestly much better and there's little drawbacks due to its paper thin defenses. Choice Scarf Lele is decent, though I feel an offensive item such as Specs or Psychinium Z can at least allow it to hit its targets far harder and be far more threatening.

Honestly, Salamence is the most expendable member of this team, not going to lie. While it had its time in the sun early on, I just don't see it doing reasonably well given 1) Tapu Fini and 2) Tapu Fini. In a seriousness, Salemence can't do much if Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain is up as it will halve all Dragon-type attack to grounded Pokemon by 50%, thus making things like Z-Draco Meteor almost useless. You have to maneuver around Tapu Lele to make sure Misty Terrain is up, but at that point, its move of a hassle to attempt as your Pokemon take unnecessary damage against potential Fairy-type on the fields.

If anything, Gyarados makes for a better replacement as you still have the Intimidate options, and with Ninetales Aurora Veil you can setup Dragon Dances against your opponent. This can also help alleviate your weaknesses to Fire and Water-types as Gyarados can at least take on some of them while still spread intimidate drops against the opposing teams. With Ninetales, the moveset is relatively fine, though consider Freeze Dry if you want to hit opposing Water-types and avoid getting Wide Guarded by the opponent.

Regarding Alolan Muk, the lack of protect concerns me as there's no reason not to have it, especially when using it in conjunction with Imprison. Thing about Imprison is that you block the opponent from using Protect as well as long as your Muk is on the field, which can be extremely advantageous. Another move Alolan Muk can utilize is Taunt since there's honestly few Pokemon on your team that stops potential hard Trick Room, or any setup based strategies. Lastly Snorlax, though standard, is rather effectively in what it does as a TR counter, but will ask how effective its been since it could be replaced honestly.

Well that's my rate for the team. Was going to comment about it early but had things going on so yeah.

Lastly, Snorlax is rather interesting on a team like this, but given your lack of

 Thanks for the comment! I have been testing a ton with the team and here are some of the things I have noticed and changed but I haven't posted it yet:
-Salamence does decent work when not against Tapu Fini
-Changed to a Naughty/Lonely Pheromosa w/ Ice Beam, and is much better than Jolly (currently looking for a Naughty/Lonely Phero atm :/)
-The team is really frail
-Switched Muk's Imprison to Protect
-Knock Off is a big threat to Snorlax
-Unnerve is a big threat to Muk and Snorlax
-Snorlax is used as a sponge and an AMAZING way to turn on TR teams
-Snorlax does work; eat hits when needed to, sets up on almost anything, and delivers strong damage.

And I am open to switching Mence to Gyarados, Choice Scarf is a main due to Lele's need to outspeed Chomp and the like (I have tested with Psychium Z and Taunt, but Gengar outspeeds Lele so she dies ), Snorlax is a really strong sponge, but Knock Off kills him as he loses his Figy and can't recover it.

I am trying to fix that, ideas? I need to find the best way to deal with A-Muk, and I like Z-Meteor for a nuke. However, I don't like to use Salamence when against Fini because of her aforementioned Terrain ability.

Again, this is my first RMT and have some work to do, but the sqaud is working on Showdown.

[mmathewsVGC]

Also, do you know the best way to beat a Tapu Fini? Don't know the best way, but I have Snorlax set up on her and Return her to death...

[Black117]

I think the key for your team is to find some form of speed control and stick right with it given that some of your mons would benefit immeasurably with either Tailwind or Trick Room. Honestly don't know which mon you'd like to replace it with, but if you are having issues with opposing Muk, then having another Ground-type such as Garchomp or Mudsdale can help. I could recommend Garchomp as a go-to counter since it can also beat Arcanine and TapU Koko, so maybe Groundium Z can work with Sword Dance. I'd honestly consider replaceing Alolan Ninetales for Garchomp, considering it opens up the Alolan Muk weakness.

[mmathewsVGC]

@Black117 I like the Garchomp idea, but having 2 dragon types on 1 team with Pheromosa seems pretty bad against Fini. I am actually testing out Krookadile right now on showdown, in replacement for Salamence. It doesn't lift my weakness to Fini (I have several ways to beat Fini down, but not one "best" way), but Z-Earthquake deals enough to annhilate A-Muk and Arcanine.

[Black117]

Wasn't clear at first, though I'd said to have replaced Salamence with the Gyarados since it kinda fits well on this team by adding some neat resistances to mons like Chomp, Arcanine, Pheromosa, etc. Salamence I feel makes the team deadweight at times given the lack of clear options aside the Alolan Muk to beat Tapu Fini. Feel like Garchomp + Gyarados gives your team a new hyper offensive mode in which you can setup with either with Sword Dance or Dragon Dance respective and continue to pressure the opponent. Both should still be able to pressure opposing Muk and Arcanine for your Tapu Lele and Pheromosa. Do recommend having Sword Dance Chomp + Z-Earthquake as it can plow thru almost anything on a team.

[mmathewsVGC]

So here's what's been happening on showdown:

-I like Gyarados and Chomp, switched Mence to Gyardos, Snorlax to Chomp
-I found Magnezone as a really strong switch in for Lele/Pheromosa (except for Arcanine) and does well against A-Muk. Also Magnezone can use Z-T-Bolt to kill Fini or Celesteela, Switched A-Muk to Magnezone
-Sturdy doesn't like Hail
-A-Ninetales to Driftblim for Tailwind, my team loves the tailwind boost.

After the above happened, I found Shoma Honami, a really good VGC player, using my team! He uses Specs instead of Scarf on Lele, and opts for a more bulky team with Mosa a way to shut-down T-Room users. However, I do need help on the EVs and want to know what he runs. Any ideas? I'm experimenting EVs and I let you know about them later...

[Black117]

(Mar 12, 2017, 03:22 PM)mmathewsVGC Wrote: So here's what's been happening on showdown:

-I like Gyarados and Chomp, switched Mence to Gyardos, Snorlax to Chomp
-I found Magnezone as a really strong switch in for Lele/Pheromosa (except for Arcanine) and does well against A-Muk. Also Magnezone can use Z-T-Bolt to kill Fini or Celesteela, Switched A-Muk to Magnezone
-Sturdy doesn't like Hail
-A-Ninetales to Driftblim for Tailwind, my team loves the tailwind boost.

After the above happened, I found Shoma Honami, a really good VGC player, using my team! He uses Specs instead of Scarf on Lele, and opts for a more bulky team with Mosa a way to shut-down T-Room users. However, I do need help on the EVs and want to know what he runs. Any ideas? I'm experimenting EVs and I let you know about them later...

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt


Shoma's EV spread for Tapu Lele has a siginficant amount of HP and Defense EVs to allow Tapu Lele to let it live Kartana's Smart Strike and withstand Z-Earthquake from Garchomp, though on a slight damage roll to OHKO, but impressive at best. You could add more Special Attack into Tapu Lele and play around the damage calculations to see what else it can either 2HKO or OHKO at the cost of the defense investment. Yeah I did notice the team's direction was mirroring that of Shoma's team, so you might want to consider changes where appropriate to distinguish itself from others. There's not much I can say except consider changing the EVs to outspeed certain mons with each of your own or so since its almost the same as Shoma's team now.