Just though I'd bring this up for those who may not have heard about it. So what do you guys think of this? I know this is a VGC forum but Smogon is pretty large as well anf it's good to hear peoples opinion this.
I understand to warrent for the ban because of how powerful Greninja is but don't feel it is warrent because of how frail it is. A glass cannon in a true sense.
The problem with Greninja is that it really controlled the meta. Meaning that you HAD to run something to counter it, or it would run through an entire team. The sets are too vast for you to prepare for. You have to learn what kind of move set they're running before you try and counter it. By the time you find out what move set they're running, half your team has taken notable damage and thats only ONE out of the six on your opponents team.
45 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Azumarill who was seen as a counter to Greninja before is now OHKO'd by a Gunk Shot.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 333-395 (94.6 - 112.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Ferrothorn is taken out by HP Fire.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 304-359 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Latios who is only x2 weak to ice is blown back.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 276-328 (66.6 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
an ASSAULT VEST Conkeldurr is 2HKO'd by this monster.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 283-335 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
specially defensive heatran is also 2HKO'd.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even Rotom Wash is threatened, and can't hit Greninja back with super effective damage thanks to it's protean ability.
45 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 307-361 (47 - 55.3%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
BLISSEY isn't even a counter.
This biggest thing to note here is that doubles and singles are insanely different. In VGC Greninja is decent, but because of how frail it is you can easily double up against it and KO it. Sometimes you won't even have to double up because Greninja can't hit both pokemon on the field.
I hope that makes sense.
The reason why he is unhealthy for singles is simply because it's singles. You can't double up against him, or have something protect and use your other mon to hit it hard as the Greninja attacks the protecting Pokemon.
It controls the meta way too much. I HAVE to run something special on my team just for it.
Something that people seem to forget is that the problem isn't JUST the Pokemon. It's how easy you can build around it. Do you see how that's a problem?
I am for the Greninja ban entirely.
Honestly, anyone who disagree's hasn't played against a high level smogon battler/isn't a primary singles player. I can understand being on the fence about it, sure. But being upright against it is silly.
i totally do not support this decision,greninja is THE MOST POWERFUL STARTER IN THE POKEMON SERIES BUT it is not invincible.i myself keep grninja on my team and he may be an excellent pokemon but his defenses are terrible.one bubble beam can do so much of damage
(Jan 11, 2015, 10:51 PM)adolf hipstar Wrote: i totally do not support this decision,greninja is THE MOST POWERFUL STARTER IN THE POKEMON SERIES BUT it is not invincible.i myself keep grninja on my team and he may be an excellent pokemon but his defenses are terrible.one bubble beam can do so much of damage
(Jan 11, 2015, 10:51 PM)adolf hipstar Wrote: i totally do not support this decision,greninja is THE MOST POWERFUL STARTER IN THE POKEMON SERIES BUT it is not invincible.i myself keep grninja on my team and he may be an excellent pokemon but his defenses are terrible.one bubble beam can do so much of damage
Yeah, you're right. I ran some calcs on a HP down nature level 28 Greninja and bubble beam OHKOs it, I'm pretty sure they banned it based on the integrity of the tier, you have to take out the trash sometimes.
(Jan 11, 2015, 10:51 PM)adolf hipstar Wrote: i totally do not support this decision,greninja is THE MOST POWERFUL STARTER IN THE POKEMON SERIES BUT it is not invincible.i myself keep grninja on my team and he may be an excellent pokemon but his defenses are terrible.one bubble beam can do so much of damage
Yeah, you're right. I ran some calcs on a HP down nature level 28 Greninja and bubble beam OHKOs it, I'm pretty sure they banned it based on the integrity of the tier, you have to take out the trash sometimes.
Yeah I was using my level 30 Greninja and used surf in a doubles match against 2 level 50 Vaporeons with Water Absorb and OHKO'd both along with the trainer. They might have had a happiness down nature.
(Jan 11, 2015, 10:51 PM)adolf hipstar Wrote: i totally do not support this decision,greninja is THE MOST POWERFUL STARTER IN THE POKEMON SERIES BUT it is not invincible.i myself keep grninja on my team and he may be an excellent pokemon but his defenses are terrible.one bubble beam can do so much of damage
Yeah, you're right. I ran some calcs on a HP down nature level 28 Greninja and bubble beam OHKOs it, I'm pretty sure they banned it based on the integrity of the tier, you have to take out the trash sometimes.
Yeah I was using my level 30 Greninja and used surf in a doubles match against 2 level 50 Vaporeons with Water Absorb and OHKO'd both along with the trainer. They might have had a happiness down nature.
They were my Vaporeon's. I released them and my girlfriend during that very battle.
Excellent reasoning here so far I assume many people may not agree because they are seeing it from outside the Smogon metagame. I myself am seeing it from a mainly VGC/Singles Battle Spot point of view as I don't have much Smogon experience. Seeing it in the confides of the metagame is entirely different than from a pure stats/ability sense. Everything said so far makes perfect sense
(Jan 11, 2015, 11:10 PM)AshenKrow Wrote: Excellent reasoning here so far I assume many people may not agree because they are seeing it from outside the Smogon metagame. I myself am seeing it from a mainly VGC/Singles Battle Spot point of view as I don't have much Smogon experience. Seeing it in the confides of the metagame is entirely different than from a pure stats/ability sense. Everything said so far makes perfect sense
Thank you so much! If everyone else thought like you the community would be a much nicer place. Not that it isn't! You know what I mean. [:
Jan 12, 2015, 03:20 AM (This post was last modified: Jan 12, 2015, 03:28 AM by tygaa2.)
Ive never played smogon, so this is my opinion from someone outside that's never played.
How does a Pokemon in Greninja get banned and labeled "Uber" when it has a very average total base stat of 530? That's nothing special and means that although it's fast with very average special attack, it's going to die very easily with one hit. I don't see the fun in competive battling, if every time people start using a Pokemon with average stats sucsessfuly, you decide you want to just eleminate that threat rather than working to make a better team to beat it. The format just seems watered down
Again no smogon experience here, just an oppinion. Also I'm not trying to bash smogon
Edit: I have to predict what type Greninja will change to when selecting an attack in doubles all the time. It's part of the game.
I assume many people may not agree because they are seeing it from outside the Smogon metagame. I myself am seeing it from a mainly VGC/Singles Battle Spot point of view as I don't have much Smogon experience. Seeing it in the confides of the metagame is entirely different than from a pure stats/ability sense. Everything said so far makes perfect sense 
