[RATE MY TEAM] Team Building Work In Progress - VGC 2015

[KirinEvans]

So here is whats up. This is my first time doing a serious VGC team build ever. A lot of this might be rookie mistakes as in choosing what you've heard is good vs what has good synergy with other team members type of stuff. Please be understanding, but not afraid to rip ideas apart as long as you can show reasons why.

I am familiar with the rules of VGC and the meta in general. I'm not looking to be directed or told what to do but am looking more for suggestions or a heading as to which direction to look for improvements.

So to make this thread relevant to others on the forums who have read and watched a lot, but are still not quite sure where to start in team building for your first time hopefully this can help others like I hope it helps me.

Thank you Rogue for the team building and VGC replay threads. Much help.

I'm not the largest fan of using legendaries, but if it is just an amazing mind blowing addition that stitches the team together I can concede.

I am also not sure about EV spreads quite yet, though I can list a general idea of what I want them to be. Seems kind of redundant to set EV's if they're going to change based on team composition. I also tend to default to bulk over offense for natures and EV's, which I know is a habit I need to fix. Slap my hand accordingly.  

Here we go.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EV: Bulk, bulk and more bulk. HP/Def/SDef
Careful Nature
Curse
Payback
Moonlight
Yawn/Toxic/Snarl

The set I fell in love with, though I know toxic stall is not a big thing in VGC. Payback is there to work off of the boosts provided by Curse. Moonlight is to heal HP up. Yawn and Snarl are provided as alternatives to Toxic. Yawn to force a switch and give me extra turns to Moonlight/Curse, Snarl as a counter to the amount of special attackers in the game and increase Umbreon's longevity.

My two favorite pokemon are Umbreon and Scizor. I know they aren't as common in this meta over the past few years, but I would like to make at least one of them work.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EV: Attack and HP/Def mostly. Maybe a little speed for specific threats.
Adamant Nature
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite
Knock Off
Roost

This would be set with another mega on my team and I would decide based on team preview which to bring.

I also have a careful nature one I want to run with Defog on another team, but focusing on this one for now. Essentially a poor man's Bisharp without Defiant but with priority steel and berry theft. I know fire and burns are rampant, and steel/bug types don't normally like it. But with better bulk than Bisharp and support coverage from other teammates I think it can work well.

Note: I would understand if the bread + butter Bisharp build just ends up performing better than this, and I would switch accordingly. I've also considered Mega Mawile in this slot.

Milotic @ Assault Vest/Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EV: Special Attack and then round out HP/Def
Modest Nature
Scald
Icy Wind
Mirror Coat/Recover
Ice Beam

Kind of what's become of Milotic, though I have been enjoying watching players that use her. Speed control that isn't affected by typing like Bulldoze, strong bulk, burn and STAB, whats not to love? Obviously Assault Vest would mean choosing Mirror Coat. Though with Leftover already on Umbreon I wasn't sure what else I could use and I might need to save Sitrus for later. This also is the main counter for any fire type that might be thrown out at Scizor. With the speed control set, I can set a more offense oriented nature and not be too concerned.

So thats where I am right now in terms of setting things up. Everything from here on out I am unsure of because of my actual inexperience with the format. Some of these are also incomplete ideas for moves/items/natures. Here are my ideas though.

Rotom-H @ Safety Goggles/Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV: Special Attack and then round out bulk and some speed.
Modest, Bold, or Calm Nature
Overheat
Volt Switch
Will-o-wisp
??????/Trick

Standard fare, really. Strong Overheat to do the job, Volt Switch out, Burn what you need to. I am a fan of the Choice Scarf into Trick option to cause some headaches for when you just don't want to do Knock-Off.

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EV: HP bulk with some Def/SDef/SAtk
Bold or Timid Nature
Taunt
Encore
Leech Seed
??????

Goodra @ Assault Vest/Life Orb/??????
Ability: Sap Sipper
EV: Man, I have a lot of special attackers.
Modest or Bold Nature
Rock Slide/??????
Sludge Bomb
Thunder Bolt
Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam

Figured it wouldn't hurt to build another special attacker I can slot in either here or elsewhere later on. Coverage moves chosen for a wide affect. I know it's not the most effective for Goodra, but Rock Slide for flinches and damage. Sludge Bomb for Fairies (Sylveon). TBolt for birds and water types. Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam for coverage on threats like the genies and other dragons.

Pachirisu @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EV: HP/Def/SDef
Impish Nature
Follow Me
Nuzzle
Super Fang
Protect

Standard stuff. Who hasn't seen this guy before, eh?

Amoongus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator (Though the build I want to use might prefer Effect Spore)
EV: HP/Def/SDef
Calm Nature
Rage Powder
Synthesis/Giga Drain
Double Team/Clear Smog
Spore

Clear Smog is mainly to reset an opponent that has just totally set up for whatever reason. Otherwise, its the standard Amoongus set that everyone loves and hates. Pulls attention off me when I'm trying to set Umbreon (or whoever else) up. Takes (or evades) hits. Sleeps targets. Heals up.

Togekiss @ Safety Goggles/Lum/Sitrus
Ability: Serene Grace
EV: HP and Def/SDef with some speed creep
Calm Nature
Follow Me
Air Slash
Thunder Wave/Tailwind/Defog
Helping Hand/Roost/Protect

Basically more Pachirisu and Amoongus.

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EV: SAtk, HP, Def/SDef
IV: 0 Speed
Quiet Nature
Flash Cannon
Shadow Ball
Wide Guard
King's Shield

Standard Aegislash.

Other pokemon I've looked at as options but can't find a place to start:

Megas: Gallade, Gardevoir, Beedrill, Mawile, Altaria, Garchomp, Venusaur, Swampert, Gyarados
Physical Threats: Arcanine, Talonflame, Trevenant, Greninja, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Swampert, Gyarados, Nidoking
Special Threats: Chandelure, Zapdos, Cofagrigus, Greninja, Charizard-Y, Galvantula, Sylveon, Glaceon, Vaporeon, Noivern, Nidoking
Supports: Klefki, Meowstic (M), Rotom-W, Jellicent (?), Sableye
Weather Teams: Charizard-Y, Ludicolo, Politoed, Tyranitar
Badassery: Shuckle

Other things I know I need to look into to round out a team or important concepts to incorporate, especially since a few ideas require time to set-up:

Wide Guard
Quick Guard
Taunt
Better physical attack options
Better cohesive attack options overall (Man I do like Steel and Dark types, eh?)
Protect

As mentioned at the top, maybe this can help someone else like me who has access to a lot of knowledge here but can't quite find a path or idea to focus on as they hit a roadblock building a team. I know when I write things out it allows me to focus a bit easier.

So yeah, this is probably a lot for anyone to read through. Thank you so much, any feedback or advice is appreciated!

[Rogue]

I really appreciate all the in-depth explanations and your small warning in the beginning. It makes it much easier to understand how we should rate this along with where you're coming from. Definitely one of the most well-written RMT's out there.

*Side note, my sister Naitre made the replay thread. Our pictures are similar however.

Let's get down to it, shall we?

Umbreon
Kind of a risky choice here. Whimsicott and Thundurus are very common this year, and Umbreon is straight up taunt fodder. That being said, it's an amazing mon in VGC. With Defenses close to cress, it's a great pick. May I recommend using Helping Hand in your 4th slot? Every turn in VGC matters, more so than singles. Yawn/Snarl are both good choices, I just think Helping Hand will benefit any team you make since you enjoy making bulkier teams, instead of offensive teams. Another thing to be noted: Foul Play Umbreon can 2HKO Landorus-T Worth noting, Foul Play bulky Umbreon is always strong.

I'd do an EV spread of 204 HP, 84 DEF, 220 SPD. This would let you have great physical bulk under a single curse, while maintaining your amazing special defense.

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Mega Scizor
Your idea isn't too far off here. People are sleeping on M-Scizor simply because life orb scizor is stronger. How ever, I still think it's a good mon. With good defenses, recovery, and great typing: It can't go too wrong, especially if you can't find a mega to close that gap. Taking care of cress and sylveon relatively easy, which are both really common.
Heatran will always be a threat, but pairing up Conkeldurr with Scizor would close that weakness while covering Conk's fairy weakness.

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Milotic
Agreed completely on keeping this. Although, I do prefer dragon tail over mirror coat so you can hopefully force in an intimidater. Plus, Assault Vest is a great choice over life orb. I try to stay away from life orb in doubles, the damage to hurt ratio usually isn't worth it. I made a analysis on Milotic on the metagame thread with EV's and all if you'd like to check it out.

---

All in all, these 3 aren't too bad. What you need now, is some great offensive pressure while still maintaining some moderate bulk. First thing comes to mind is this terrifying mon: Sylveon
Seriously. Choice specs Hyper Voice Pixilate Sylveon just blows things away and doesn't even leave any remains. You're not afraid of dragons/darks/fightings, but it's nice to have an immediate threat to them while giving off solid spread damage.

With this, we have a small problem with Heatran. Milotic is the really only stop to it on the team, so it's best to go for something that can get rid of it immediately. However, that's easier said than done. Heatrans can either carry a chople  berry to weaken fighting attacks, or a air balloon to avoid ground attacks. So the choice is up to you honestly. Landorus/Garchomps/Excadrill are great stops to Heatran earthquake wise. But if you really wanna run a separate mega then Mega Gallade would be the best. (or Terrakion if you would prefer that. You'd get great coverage with it.)

Finally, the team is somewhat annoyed by Thundurus. Excadrill/Mamoswine are some of the best to stopping it. You can't get t-waved, and HP-ice does very pitiful damage to them.

Your core is very well made and honestly the only thing you have trouble with is Heatran, which can be easily maintained with how you build the rest. You're definitely on the right track and it's good to keep practicing and building. Find what works best for you and work that team down to the very core.

I didn't touch the other ones you had listed because in my opinion they'll only add onto your Heatran weakness, they're either weak to him or wouldn't be able to touch him.

Also, sorry if this reply isn't too great. It's 5:45 AM and I haven't slept. Feel free to ask questions and I'd be happy to help the best I can.

[Black117]

Hello KirinEvens!

First off I would like to say have if you want a more visible teambuilder for you're effort try out the team builder at teammagma.net. That said here is my advice.

First off if you want to build around a for the 2015 VGC metagame, Mega Scizor is your best bet since it can beat strong Megas like Metagross, Venusaur, Kangaskhan, and can bypass and speed control with its priority technician boosted bullet punch. If you look at both the Pokemon usage in Top Cut of this pass week's Winter Regionals, much of them are capable of immediate offence and can counteract Stall in this metagame. Your Umbreon set would probably need to a moveset consisting of foul play, snarl, and a supportive set of either moonlight, protect, yawn, or even helping hand. Just a quick note, a helping hand boosted bullet punch will always knock out either offensive Sylveon or Mega Gardevoir who like threaten Umbreon. That's probably what Umbreon has going as it can fire off stab boosted foul plays while providing offensive support with helping hand. As for Mega Scizor, try out Sword Dance in place of either Bug Bite or Knock Off and see which of the three move you want in Mega Scizor.

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 96 HP / 116 Def Sylveon: 152-180 (83.5 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
92+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Helping Hand Bullet Punch vs. 96 HP / 116 Def Sylveon: 204-242 (112 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Here's a good team coverage/resistances I thought of.
http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/#?2...9h|591|706
btw you can add moves to figure out your team's overall type coverage.

As you see, the standout main weakness of this team are rock type pokemom (and particularly rock slide) but I think its good so far. I think Goodra will benefit from the assault vest item more since it will help you matchup against rain teams. Milotic can just settle for either a sitrus berry or leftovers, your pick. Safety goggles Rotom-H is somewhat standard but gets the job done. I would recommend a moveset that consisted of Overheat, Thunderbolt, Will-o-wisp, Hidden Power Ice, or Protect. That's pretty much all I have to say at the moment. Again you can try to see which POkemon work best for you alright.

[KirinEvans]

Thanks for all of the great ideas so far. Lot of good feedback I can use.

Few followups and thoughts:

Would bringing a 2nd mega provide an advantage more often than just having one? My thinking here is seeing a 2nd mega may force your opponent into bringing a poke they don't want to for coverage or forces them to leave one they want to bring on the bench.

I can see the opposite effect too, basically leaving your cohesive team at 5+1 instead of a full 6, if that makes sense.

That would leave me between looking at something like Excadrill for coverage and a Heatran/Thundurus counter vs a Mega Gallade or Garchomp with less resistances and not as strong a Thundurus check.

I like the Dragon Tail idea on Milotic. Would running Ice Beam become redundant then and I can pick something else? Also with the switch in Dragon Tail forces would a speed control like a sticky web Galvantula/Shuckle be smart? I don't see spin or defog run at all, so it sounds like something exploitable.

Looking at support, with a projected team looking something like

Umbreon
M-Scizor
Milotic
Excadrill or M-Gallade or Terrakion
Sylveon

I don't want to throw Klefki in there with 2 other steel types. So looking at Meowstic vs Whimsicott. Meowstic would cover me with quick guard, screens, and swagger to abuse Umbreons Foul Play. Whimsicott would lock up opponents with taunt/encore, worry/leech seed and maybe beat up for Terrakion.

[Black117]

Bringing two Mega for "team preview can help you create a bit of mindgames for your opponent. That said, when I run two Megas, usually both won't have similar weaknesses or roles. Right now, Scizor is rather uncommon to be the Mega and that alone can help.

Now based on the nature of the team, it's considerably weak to Fire types like Heatran and Charizard Y if you decided on running Exadrill. Terrakion or Garchomp seem like the best picks here as they both handle Fire types and provide spread damage with Stab Rock Slide or Earthquake. Btw Dragon Tail is not a form speed control at all and isn't as effective in doubles with the nonexistent entry hazards. Reasons why I don't agree with Dragon Tail on Milotic are the following: 1) it effectively give the opponent a "free switch in" and can completely ruin your momentum of the battle, 2) the 90% accuracy is can be costly as well plus fairy switch ins render it useless, and 3) Milotic has better options to run. Ice beam is really clutch since there will be times where you don't want to Icy Wind say a Bisharp, or a opposing Milotic. Given the moveset is Scald, Icy Wind, and Ice Beam, Mirror Coat seems the most viable option to run for a Milotic if you plan on running it with an Assault Vest. Other moves to consider are Hydro Pump, Brine, or a Hidden Power type since it's movepool is rather shallow.

Problem with having stick web support in doubles is people tend to run either tailwind, thunder wave, or even trick room just to negate -1 speed drops from icy wind/electroweb/stick web. Whimsicott can provide your team with crucial tailwind support and can use Beat Up on Terrakion just to fire off high damage Rock Slides or CCs. Taunt/Encore help you team shut down any other support pokemon like Prankster Thundurus-I or Cresselias from using their respective status.

[Rogue]

I've never liked running double mega's, but that's just me. It's fun to play around with sometimes but against really good well built teams, you'll feel like you're wasting a slot.

[Vexian]

I Would also agree that it's not really a good idea to run 2 Megas on a team. But like someone posted earlier you could play some mind games and run 2 pokemon that have the potential to mega but only Carry the mega stone on one of them and make them guess which one is the actual mega pokemon.

The problem with running 2 mega pokemon is that if you find yourself in a matchup where you would need to run both pokemon that are the Megas, since only 1 can mega the other one is essentially carrying no item and is usually built for whatever it's mega ability is.

[KirinEvans]

Spent a lot of time on showdown with this team last night:

Umbreon
M-Scizor
Milotic
Whimsicott
Sylveon
And then a mix of Gallade, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr in order of increasing effectivenes.

Now all of the EV's were not quite tailored, but a few things I noticed:

Lacking electric or grass moves for coverage.
Lack of a reliable use of fake out
Lack of a reliable burn or paralyze
No protect
In close matches, I always ended up needing a fire move

Whimsicott was never really a problem, and most of its issues were self imposed and learning how to predict. Definitely pulled it's weight.

Umbreon I feel will do fine with EV tuning and some move changes. I do feel like I need swagger somewhere to take advantage of Foul Play. Also running into 4 move syndrome as I want to run Curse, Moonlight, Foul Play, Helping Hand, and protect. Might need to drop Curse for Protect.

I might swap M-Scizor for M-Mawile. Would let me run Fire Fang and Intimidate. Still undecided.

Milotic was a mixed issue. I didn't opt for Icy Wind as often and that lead to me getting a strong HH+attack off but getting out sped in the process and getting picked off a turn or two later. Though I really like Milotic and what it brings to the table. Might also look at running Rotom-W a bit for some thunder coverage.

Sylveon was very good, though it did get predicted a bit. Maybe want to try not running specs, though I do like that power. How good is Misty Terrain in use?

That brings me to Gallade/Terrakion/Conkeldurr. Gallade was worthless sans the one fight I skill swapped a Mega Kang and they ragequit. Might work better as a Mega and with a more coverage oriented set.

Terrakion saw me getting wins more often, but still felt something lacking. Having Rock Slide was good, and it's used for a reason so a tuning session might get more out of this. Any other item options besides Sitrus?

Conkeldurr did seem to perform the best of the three, and could get even better with a fine tunung4. Might opt for fire punch over ice since I have ice on Milotic. Also ran Mach and Drain with Iron Fist. Is Guts a better overall ability? Better item than Sitrus?

I had a lot of trouble with Mega Zard Y just tearing me apart. They always were able to predict rock slide or ice beam and then just tore face with heatwave or air slash. Venusaurs were manageable with Bug Bite.

Also had some issue with Ludicolo and Gothitelle, but not necessarily rain or trick room.