Thinking about the Mega I wanted to build my team around, Charizard Y came to mind instantly. Ever since Red/Blue I loved Charizard. Charmander was always my starter pokemon. I also like the idea of Drought. For the set, I went back and forth between heat wave and Overheat. I ultimately decided on overheat because it appears to be a less popular choice, and I hope I can surprise people. I chose protect to help set up Venusaur.
Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Thunderbolt
Personally, I don't like Outrage (3 times and it's confused) but I am not sure what to change that too. I am thinking perhaps a boosting move?
Dragonite can help with Charizard's weakness to water pokemon and he can also help cover Venusaur's weakness to flying, fire and rock types with earthquake and thunderbolt.
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 SpA
Lonely Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Slide
Excadrill helps cover fairy types with Iron Head, flying types with Rock Slide and HP Ice and can cover rock/fire types with earthquake.
Actually, thinking about this, Excadrill would be a perfect counter Pokemon on a Venusaur team. Maybe I can switch out Gengar for Venasuar?
Venusaur is the perfect partner for Charizard Y with Drought. Venusaur gets a speed boost with drought, allowing it to outsped non boosted Pokemon. With HP Ice, it can, in theory, check flying pokemon. Sleep powder can help control the field, in theory.
Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Crunch
I need a bulky attacker and Snorlax is the Pokemon for it.
I am thinking about removing Steel Wing for Tailwind or Quickguard.
Talonflame would be my fast sweeper. I may need to change up his moveset though.
I am a beginner so I am losing alot with this build. This could be because the team is unbalanced, or it could be because I am inexperienced. Any thoughts?
I was wondering why you went with quick claw on Gengar instead of something like a focus sash? He already has good speed and a sash would almost guarantee at least one hit.
(Jul 28, 2015, 04:50 PM)cactus_jack12749 Wrote: I was wondering why you went with quick claw on Gengar instead of something like a focus sash? He already has good speed and a sash would almost guarantee at least one hit.
Well, this is certainly an interesting team. Here are my 2 cents:
GET RID OF EXCADRILL! Almost every thing your Excadrill is trying to do is done better by Metagross. You should never make Excadrill bulky. He has too many weaknesses, and far too low defense. AND NEVER. EVER! Make Excadrill a special attacker. He has a special attack of 50. Let me say that again. He has a special attack, or 50. Psyduck has a base special attack of 65. You are better off using a Psyduck that a special Excadrill (was that a bit harsh? I'm sorry). In this case, I would run a Metagross with either Assault Vest or Leftovers, 252 Hp, 252 Atk, and Adamant. He should have Meteor Mash (or Iron Head), Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, and Protect, but if you are running AV, Rock Slide would fit right in.
Your Charizard looks pretty good to be honest. I like it. I would replace Overheat with Fire Pledge, because Pledge teams have some true power behind them. You have to be careful with Focus Blast, because it could come back to bite you.
Venusaur looks good too. I would replace Leaf Storm with Grass Pledge, but other than that, it looks beautiful.
Talonflame looks very well made as well. I would run Adamant instead of Jollly, and replace Steel Wing with Quick Guard, but other than that, I like it.
Ah, Dragonite. I like you. I have never run him Banded, but I wouldn't. He has too much utility to be banded in my opinion. I would run max HP and max Attack investment. Or you could go Jolly with Max Attack and Max Speed. Ether way, get rid of Thunderbolt and put in Protect.
Now, lets look at Snorlax. He already takes next to nothing from a Special standpoint. I would run Adamant and go 252 Atk, 252 Def. Then I would run Double Edge, Protect, Ice Punch, and then Rock Slide. I would have a Sitrius Berry and have Thick Fat.
This team is really weak to common threats such as Terrakion, Landorus-T, a well played Raichu and opposing Charizards. Not to mention you don't have any solid offensive options for fast Heatran, Mega Salamence, Hydreigon, a well played Mega Metagross and Thundurus-I.
For a team like this, you would benefit more from running Heat Wave or Flamethrower/Fire Blast over Focus Blast and probably even consider running Tailwind on Charizard. The lack of reliable spread damage is going to hinder you in the long run. Also Flamethrower/Fire Blast picks up almost the same amount of knock outs as Overheat. It's a trade, really, the Special Attack drop recoil or the 5% less accuracy / 40 less BP. In the case you opt for Tailwind support, run a bulkier Charizard with Modest/Bold nature. I honestly favor bulky Modest Zard because of its damage output and to be honest you aren't really getting far in terms of speed tiers with a max speed Zard since the checks for it generally outspeed it.
VGC Dragonite is an interesting pick seeing as how Japanese Sand, the genies, Cresselia, opposing Dragons and bulky water types give it so much problems. I strongly suggest that you do not run Choice Band on Dragonite. Dragonite has a very wide movepool and base stats which allow it to use it effectively. Again, Tailwind is an option here and you're almost guaranteed to set it up with the Multiscale/Inner Focus ability. Fun trump cards to run on Dragonite are Ice Beam, Superpower, Fire Punch/Fire Blast (to take advantage of the sun), Rock Slide, Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, well you get the idea. A lot of potential in using Dragonite as either an offensive support or all out support with status and recovery moves. Outrage has problems with misfiring and you being locked into an attack for three turns, Extreme Speed is good, Earthquake is nice but it's a move that takes a lot out of a team to play around (well you have 2 Pokemon immune to it so go for it) and Thunderbolt on a banded set is weird. Perhaps ThunderPunch to take advantage of the band.
Excadrill is nice but HP Ice is a bad idea. It doesn't pick on KOs (or even come close because of its crappy special attack stat) so I'd recommend running Drill Run. For this set, Choice Scarf is good for it gives you the outspeed on Charizard, Mamoswine, Gardevoir, Terrakion, Gengar and Metagross (...and more kappaHD)
Snorlax is a weak link to this team. Go for an Electric type to cover your issues with Water types, Flying types, Rain teams and so on. Zapdos, Raichu, Thundurus-I, Pachirisu and Thundurus-T are good viable options.
You need to run Protect on Talonflame. That's a fact. Tailwind is an option here, again. In most cases you won't need U-turn either and Steel Wing is just a mediocre offensive option in general. Other moves options are Taunt, Heat Wave, Overheat and Natural Gift + Liechi Berry (BP 100 Grass move).
That's as far as moveset advice
Your team is massively weak to Rock, Water, Ice, Electric and ironically Fire in the case the sun is up.
This team has a lot of potential but you need to test the team more and identify the flaws and fix them with solid proactive solutions.
First off, I want to apologize for taking this long to respond. Work has been incredibly busy, and for those who have or know someone, as a cook, you will understand. Not too mention, we had 2 suspenisons this week due to people being stupid, so I managed to pick up and additional 25 hours (on top of my usual 65). Yeah, long week lol.
Secondly, I want to thank you both for your replies. I haven't had the chance to actually try some of your suggestions on Showdown yet but I do fully plan to. I have looked into them however.
(Jul 28, 2015, 07:03 PM)Delta Wrote: Well, this is certainly an interesting team. Here are my 2 cents:
GET RID OF EXCADRILL! Almost every thing your Excadrill is trying to do is done better by Metagross. You should never make Excadrill bulky. He has too many weaknesses, and far too low defense. AND NEVER. EVER! Make Excadrill a special attacker. He has a special attack of 50. Let me say that again. He has a special attack, or 50. Psyduck has a base special attack of 65. You are better off using a Psyduck that a special Excadrill (was that a bit harsh? I'm sorry). In this case, I would run a Metagross with either Assault Vest or Leftovers, 252 Hp, 252 Atk, and Adamant. He should have Meteor Mash (or Iron Head), Zen Headbutt, Ice Punch, and Protect, but if you are running AV, Rock Slide would fit right in.
Your Charizard looks pretty good to be honest. I like it. I would replace Overheat with Fire Pledge, because Pledge teams have some true power behind them. You have to be careful with Focus Blast, because it could come back to bite you.
Venusaur looks good too. I would replace Leaf Storm with Grass Pledge, but other than that, it looks beautiful.
Talonflame looks very well made as well. I would run Adamant instead of Jollly, and replace Steel Wing with Quick Guard, but other than that, I like it.
Ah, Dragonite. I like you. I have never run him Banded, but I wouldn't. He has too much utility to be banded in my opinion. I would run max HP and max Attack investment. Or you could go Jolly with Max Attack and Max Speed. Ether way, get rid of Thunderbolt and put in Protect.
Now, lets look at Snorlax. He already takes next to nothing from a Special standpoint. I would run Adamant and go 252 Atk, 252 Def. Then I would run Double Edge, Protect, Ice Punch, and then Rock Slide. I would have a Sitrius Berry and have Thick Fat.
The reason why I chose Excadrill (besides looking badass) is because you don't see alot in VGC. I was hoping maybe I could get an edge. But I totally get what you are saying about Metagross. It's like saying, I have 2 dimes and a nickel but a quarter would be better (in most cases). I have looked around and Metagross is better, but at the same time, wouldn't that make my team more predictable?
As for the pledge moves. They do seem great to use (I personally never used them in X/Y though) but it also seems like a waste. In order for the better impact, you will need to use them together right? With Drought, I would love to take advantage of Venusaur's ability. Odds are Charizard won't live past round 2-3 (Assuming I would protect first round). I'm thinking I might replace Leaf Storm for Solar Beam, since it doesn't need a charge in Sunlight. That would leave me with roughly 1-2 moves left. Should I risk a double hit into one slot? Again, I haven't used the pledge moves, so I don't know how they work.
The only reason Talonflame is Jolly is because Showdown suggested it. I can switch it to Adamant though.
Snorlax is still a work in progress. I have ran a few different sets but the one I did originally post, I have had the most success with. I will give your set a fair shake.
Dragonite's moveset I found online but really, I haven't been able to test him out extensively due to bad match ups. I will try and work him in more and will use your set.
Thank you for your input. These comments have really helped me out tremendously.
(Jul 29, 2015, 09:14 AM)Marcusube Wrote: This team is really weak to common threats such as Terrakion, Landorus-T, a well played Raichu and opposing Charizards. Not to mention you don't have any solid offensive options for fast Heatran, Mega Salamence, Hydreigon, a well played Mega Metagross and Thundurus-I.
For a team like this, you would benefit more from running Heat Wave or Flamethrower/Fire Blast over Focus Blast and probably even consider running Tailwind on Charizard. The lack of reliable spread damage is going to hinder you in the long run. Also Flamethrower/Fire Blast picks up almost the same amount of knock outs as Overheat. It's a trade, really, the Special Attack drop recoil or the 5% less accuracy / 40 less BP. In the case you opt for Tailwind support, run a bulkier Charizard with Modest/Bold nature. I honestly favor bulky Modest Zard because of its damage output and to be honest you aren't really getting far in terms of speed tiers with a max speed Zard since the checks for it generally outspeed it.
VGC Dragonite is an interesting pick seeing as how Japanese Sand, the genies, Cresselia, opposing Dragons and bulky water types give it so much problems. I strongly suggest that you do not run Choice Band on Dragonite. Dragonite has a very wide movepool and base stats which allow it to use it effectively. Again, Tailwind is an option here and you're almost guaranteed to set it up with the Multiscale/Inner Focus ability. Fun trump cards to run on Dragonite are Ice Beam, Superpower, Fire Punch/Fire Blast (to take advantage of the sun), Rock Slide, Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, well you get the idea. A lot of potential in using Dragonite as either an offensive support or all out support with status and recovery moves. Outrage has problems with misfiring and you being locked into an attack for three turns, Extreme Speed is good, Earthquake is nice but it's a move that takes a lot out of a team to play around (well you have 2 Pokemon immune to it so go for it) and Thunderbolt on a banded set is weird. Perhaps ThunderPunch to take advantage of the band.
Excadrill is nice but HP Ice is a bad idea. It doesn't pick on KOs (or even come close because of its crappy special attack stat) so I'd recommend running Drill Run. For this set, Choice Scarf is good for it gives you the outspeed on Charizard, Mamoswine, Gardevoir, Terrakion, Gengar and Metagross (...and more kappaHD)
Snorlax is a weak link to this team. Go for an Electric type to cover your issues with Water types, Flying types, Rain teams and so on. Zapdos, Raichu, Thundurus-I, Pachirisu and Thundurus-T are good viable options.
You need to run Protect on Talonflame. That's a fact. Tailwind is an option here, again. In most cases you won't need U-turn either and Steel Wing is just a mediocre offensive option in general. Other moves options are Taunt, Heat Wave, Overheat and Natural Gift + Liechi Berry (BP 100 Grass move).
That's as far as moveset advice
Your team is massively weak to Rock, Water, Ice, Electric and ironically Fire in the case the sun is up.
This team has a lot of potential but you need to test the team more and identify the flaws and fix them with solid proactive solutions.
Thank you for your input as well.
Snorlax maybe the weak link, but on Showdown, he is the only one that can survive 3-4 turns. I do admit that his moveset can be better, as I barely did damage. Would a Manectric be a viable option? I started using one on my in game team and so far, I like him.
Again with Dragonite, I haven't really been able to use him much due to type matches. I will try out your advised set as well.
Your suggestions really do help me as they point me towards what I should focus on. Thank you
Aug 3, 2015, 09:03 AM (This post was last modified: Aug 3, 2015, 09:46 AM by Chorc.)
Based on your suggestions, I changed my line up.
Took out Excadrill and brought in Raichu.
Raichu @ Focus Sash
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Thunderbolt
- Fake Out
- Protect
I took this set straight from Smogon. I have been playing a few games with him. I find he's a great match with Charizard Y, but that does seem to make my Venusaur useless based on his ability so I tend to partner him with Talonflame and Dragonite more.
I took out Snorlax and Brought in Metagross.
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect
I haven't tried Metagross yet, due to type match ups but I am looking forward to it.
I did change my attacks on Dragonite. I changed him from a choice band to an Assault Vest, to test it out. Not really sure if that's a good item to have on him though.
Dragonite @ Assault Vest
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
I am still playing around with Dragonite. I believe Dragonite will be my wildcard as he has such a huge movepool that I can run with.
I have played around with Fire Pledge but I've noticed (at least on Showdown) that people lead with Metagross and Amoogus. Heat wave tends to really do alot of damage if they both stay in. Again, I am not really that experienced so I could be misusing Fire Pledge.
I will post some replays soon
Current Record: 3-3
Replay 1:
Lead with Metagross and Raichu, Dragonite and Talonflame in the back. Made some mistakes.
