Mar 25, 2016, 06:45 AM (This post was last modified: Mar 25, 2016, 12:46 PM by Ryouyashi.)
Hello, was lookin for some help with a team i had been playing with, it seems to be falling short and i dont really know where it keeps doing so.
The team is for VGC2016 format:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]
This is a Xerneas i obtained in a giveaway, I really enjoy using the Fairy type, and this Xerneas seems to be my Ace! Id like to keep him in the build if possible. Also as for hidden power ground, it came with this from the giveaway and i mostly use it to ohko or 2hko Primal Groudon.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Thunder
- Water Spout
Another pokemon i got from a giveaway, EV spread is just basic sp, atk and hp/sp.Def for survivability, although ive been having some synergy issues with this and the rest of my team. One of the most notable things with this pokemon is that it was able to tank a calm mind Primal Kyogre's thunder attack twice, albeit with very little Hp afterwards.
Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Protect
- Thunder Wave
Used as a counter to fairy, and i had amazing resources available to me in the form of N's Ferroseed from Black2/White2 when breeding this! Ive been able to take out a Xerneas with Genomancy active in 2 hits with Gyro Ball, with Lum Berry as item to stop moves like Hypnosis
Clefable @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Magic Coat
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
This i was experimenting with. Originally i added it as a counterpick to Dark Void Smeargle, but i feel like there could be way better pokemon to use. Follow me to drag attacks away from the main attacker which is out at the moment, and moonlight to heal afterwards. Moonblast is there so it has at least 1 attack, which does gain STAB.
Landorus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Protect
- Superpower
Another giveaway pokemon i obtained, mostly i use it to cover up my steel and fairy types on the team, and to use knock off with a bit more damage than normal, sometimes enough to defeat a ghost or psychic type.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
Well, i needed a mega and Kangaskan wasnt working with my playstyle for some reason, so i tried this. Its strong but it usually dies quickly, VERY quickly to a Primal Groudon. Its main purpose is to sucker punch when needed with rock slide as a coverup to fire pokemon.
My win/lose ratio with this on showdown is about....30%(Win)/70%(Loss) and my preferred playstyle is field control with powerful attacks.
I would of used a Primal Groudon with this, but i do not have a good one at all to use...the only other competative legend i have is a Mega Rayquaza.
I didnt save any matches from showdown as i didnt even know i could (very very new to competative battling), and this is my first real try of creating a compeative team to use. All criticism is welcomed, so please give it a look and tell me where i went wrong. Thanks <3
Edit: After practicing more with this....i noticed my win loss rate is even lower, about 10%(win)/90%(loss)....=/ somethin is seriously wrong with it....but i just cant find it...
#I'd try Moonblast over HP Ground on Xerneas because it allows you to OHKO (at +2 SpA after Geomancy) certain threats such as M-Kang, Dialga and you will also 2HKO an opposing boosted Xerneas, and it will hit harder P-Kyogre, Cresselia and other bulky mons.
+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 118-140 (57 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 150-178 (72.4 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You will be able to KO a Primal Groudon with Dazzling Gleam + Moonblast anyway, so HP Ground is almost useless. Run a Timid 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread.
#If you run a Modest Kyogre you can afford to invest in bulk instead of going max SpA, given its incredible SpA Base Stat.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This spread allows you to take a LO Dragon Ascent from M-Ray, or a -1 Double-Edge from M-Kang is almost a 3HKO or even a 252+ Atk Power Whip from Ferrothorn. You'll still be able to hit anything really hard because of its Modest + 76 SpA EVs spread. I noticed you already have Ferrothorn to deal with an opposing P-Kyogre, so i decided to add Scald instead of Thunder because it gives you another Water STAB to use when you are under half HP.
#Your Ferrothorn build is a bit unconventional. First of all, Gyro Ball will become more powerful if you run a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs. You also need some more Atk investment to actually OHKO a +2 Xerneas or a standard P-Kyogre.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
148+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 12 HP / 4 Def Primal Kyogre: 180-212 (101.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Leech Seed + Leftovers is a solid win condition if you eliminate targets such as M-Mence or P-Groudon because there's not much else that can deal with a Ferrothorn once it setups 1 or 2 Leech Seed.
# I like Landorus-T's Intimidate to support P-Kyogre, i'd just suggest to run a Jolly nature because it allows you to outspeed both Primals by 1 point. Knock Off is not as strong as last year, so i would run a standard Rock Slide.
For the last two slots... mmm i think you need better options because both Clefable and M-Mawile make you really weak to P-Groudon and opposing Steel types. Another problem you have with this team is that you lack a form of speed control, a Taunt user to prevent opposing Trick Room or Tailwind from going up and in general and your average speed is just decent. I have something in mind to try to fix these problems, if you are willing to make these changes.
Gengar is fast, it adds a form of speed control (Icy Wind) and Taunt to your team. You also have something else to lead against a Smeargle + Xerneas lead (because you can threaten both of them with Taunt and Sludge Bomb).
Skill Swap is a trick you can use against opposing M-Kang to steal their Parental Bond (while avoiding Sucker Punch), but more importantly it lets you switch ability with your P-Kyogre to change weather in your favour against an opposing P-Groudon. You also have a Levitate user so that Landorus-T can safely go for an Earthquake (to be honest, you can also run a Choice Band on Landorus-T with Explosion since Gengar is a Ghost type and it's not affected by it)
Another Intimidate support which is beneficial for both Kyogre and Xerneas. Mega-Salamence can "safely" switch into P-Groudon to threaten it with a strong Hyper Voice but it can also hit opposing Kyogre or Xerneas with a powerful Double-Edge. Flamethrower is my third move of choice because honestly Ferrothorn is a pain to deal with the rest of your team, so you have a move to directly OHKO it (you will be able to hit M-Mawile too)
(Mar 26, 2016, 07:34 AM)GMX Wrote: #I'd try Moonblast over HP Ground on Xerneas because it allows you to OHKO (at +2 SpA after Geomancy) certain threats such as M-Kang, Dialga and you will also 2HKO an opposing boosted Xerneas, and it will hit harder P-Kyogre, Cresselia and other bulky mons.
+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 118-140 (57 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 150-178 (72.4 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You will be able to KO a Primal Groudon with Dazzling Gleam + Moonblast anyway, so HP Ground is almost useless. Run a Timid 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread.
#If you run a Modest Kyogre you can afford to invest in bulk instead of going max SpA, given its incredible SpA Base Stat.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This spread allows you to take a LO Dragon Ascent from M-Ray, or a -1 Double-Edge from M-Kang is almost a 3HKO or even a 252+ Atk Power Whip from Ferrothorn. You'll still be able to hit anything really hard because of its Modest + 76 SpA EVs spread. I noticed you already have Ferrothorn to deal with an opposing P-Kyogre, so i decided to add Scald instead of Thunder because it gives you another Water STAB to use when you are under half HP.
#Your Ferrothorn build is a bit unconventional. First of all, Gyro Ball will become more powerful if you run a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs. You also need some more Atk investment to actually OHKO a +2 Xerneas or a standard P-Kyogre.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
148+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 12 HP / 4 Def Primal Kyogre: 180-212 (101.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Leech Seed + Leftovers is a solid win condition if you eliminate targets such as M-Mence or P-Groudon because there's not much else that can deal with a Ferrothorn once it setups 1 or 2 Leech Seed.
# I like Landorus-T's Intimidate to support P-Kyogre, i'd just suggest to run a Jolly nature because it allows you to outspeed both Primals by 1 point. Knock Off is not as strong as last year, so i would run a standard Rock Slide.
For the last two slots... mmm i think you need better options because both Clefable and M-Mawile make you really weak to P-Groudon and opposing Steel types. Another problem you have with this team is that you lack a form of speed control, a Taunt user to prevent opposing Trick Room or Tailwind from going up and in general and your average speed is just decent. I have something in mind to try to fix these problems, if you are willing to make these changes.
Gengar is fast, it adds a form of speed control (Icy Wind) and Taunt to your team. You also have something else to lead against a Smeargle + Xerneas lead (because you can threaten both of them with Taunt and Sludge Bomb).
Skill Swap is a trick you can use against opposing M-Kang to steal their Parental Bond (while avoiding Sucker Punch), but more importantly it lets you switch ability with your P-Kyogre to change weather in your favour against an opposing P-Groudon. You also have a Levitate user so that Landorus-T can safely go for an Earthquake (to be honest, you can also run a Choice Band on Landorus-T with Explosion since Gengar is a Ghost type and it's not affected by it)
Another Intimidate support which is beneficial for both Kyogre and Xerneas. Mega-Salamence can "safely" switch into P-Groudon to threaten it with a strong Hyper Voice but it can also hit opposing Kyogre or Xerneas with a powerful Double-Edge. Flamethrower is my third move of choice because honestly Ferrothorn is a pain to deal with the rest of your team, so you have a move to directly OHKO it (you will be able to hit M-Mawile too)
I hope it helped!
Hmmm thats really interesting! This was done using what i have in game minus the mawile and clefable, so those i dont mind switching out for anything else. One thing though is i may get a perfect IV groudon from trades (hopefully), which will be a clean EV slate, whereas kyogre is already trained (reset bag evades me lol) so im not sure if groudon/kyogre or groudon/xerneas is better (in that case i dont mind changing xerneas), Yeah that ferrothorn just sorta happened, i didnt realize Leech Seed had to be chain bred, and it already hatched out an adamant 5 iv 0 speed one, ill probably try to make it by breeding this with another ferrothorn with leech seed and see what happens. As for landorus, this is the nature and IV/EV spread of mine in game, and ive already captured the landorus in my game so i cant SR it sadly, but my games one has a different moveset as this one, which is really just minus protect and plus Rock Slide. Gengar ill definitely take that advice though! However i was wondering, if i were to change to kyogre/groudon or xerneas/groudon, would the mega salamance be replaced with something else?
Switch P-Kyogre and Clefable for P-Groudon and Togekiss. Currently, your team gets destroyed by Ferrothorn alongside other Steel types such as Dialga and Mawile. You need the Fire coverage more than the water coverage.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Protect
- Earth Power
I don't currently have a Togekiss set on hand, however, it'd run Tailwind, Follow Me, Helping Hand and Air Slash /w Sitrus Berry and ability Serene Grace
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 68 Def / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Protect
- Leech Seed
Thunder Wave actually drops the damage that Gyro Ball does so I wouldn't recommend using it. Leech Seed is good for chip damage as well as giving Ferrothorn a means of recovery. I like Rocky Helmet here but you can run Leftovers, Shed Skin, Lum Berry or even Chople Berry (specifically for Low Kick Kangaskhan)
Landorus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earth Power
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Superpower
Special Landorus works better here most because you have no Pokemon immune to Ground meaning you would be forced to Earthquake your team mates. Rock Slide is for hitting Ho-oh and Talonflame who give the other members of this team a ridiculously hard time and Superpower is the strongest move Landorus has to hit Ferrothorn outside of Focus Blast. U-Turn is an option here as well for pivoting.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head / Taunt
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
It's the generic Mawile set. Now to be honest, in a majority of games I've played with this thing, it doesn't do much outside of picking off Pokemon with Sucker Punch in games. Rock Slide and Stone Edge, however, made it virtually impossible for it to take on Xerneas, Kangaskhan and Kyogre as Stone Edge's accuracy is garbage and Rock Slide doesn't do much on its own. Taunt is an option on this set for dealing with Ferrothorn as well as unsuspecting support Pokemon
Mar 26, 2016, 11:25 AM (This post was last modified: Mar 26, 2016, 11:31 AM by Ryouyashi.)
(Mar 26, 2016, 10:44 AM)Marcusube Wrote: I would suggest changing the following
Switch P-Kyogre and Clefable for P-Groudon and Togekiss. Currently, your team gets destroyed by Ferrothorn alongside other Steel types such as Dialga and Mawile. You need the Fire coverage more than the water coverage.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Protect
- Earth Power
I don't currently have a Togekiss set on hand, however, it'd run Tailwind, Follow Me, Helping Hand and Air Slash /w Sitrus Berry and ability Serene Grace
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 68 Def / 60 SpD / 4 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Protect
- Leech Seed
Thunder Wave actually drops the damage that Gyro Ball does so I wouldn't recommend using it. Leech Seed is good for chip damage as well as giving Ferrothorn a means of recovery. I like Rocky Helmet here but you can run Leftovers, Shed Skin, Lum Berry or even Chople Berry (specifically for Low Kick Kangaskhan)
Landorus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earth Power
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Superpower
Special Landorus works better here most because you have no Pokemon immune to Ground meaning you would be forced to Earthquake your team mates. Rock Slide is for hitting Ho-oh and Talonflame who give the other members of this team a ridiculously hard time and Superpower is the strongest move Landorus has to hit Ferrothorn outside of Focus Blast. U-Turn is an option here as well for pivoting.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head / Taunt
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
It's the generic Mawile set. Now to be honest, in a majority of games I've played with this thing, it doesn't do much outside of picking off Pokemon with Sucker Punch in games. Rock Slide and Stone Edge, however, made it virtually impossible for it to take on Xerneas, Kangaskhan and Kyogre as Stone Edge's accuracy is garbage and Rock Slide doesn't do much on its own. Taunt is an option on this set for dealing with Ferrothorn as well as unsuspecting support Pokemon
I may wanna stop using Mawile, it always gets knocked out immidently, plus nearly every match i had was against a dark void Smeargle so far, which is why i had the clefable. Togekiss is interesting, but it cant learn helping hand sadly. The groudon usable to me however is also Adamant nature, plus i only got the one Landorus =/ so changing the legends so drastically is pretty difficult, I may take appart the team and rebuild it from scratch surrounding Xerneas and Groudon. But outside of Groudon/Smeargle/Ferrothorn as stuff that destroys me, ive also had issues with Yveltal and especially Rotom-Wash.
Edit: aside from what i had shown, at least for legends, i got a few other sources to obtain them, but...i do not know how. Such sources are X/Y not finished with story (Xerneas/Yveltal SR), and a AS which also is not done with story, however OR is my main game, as such i captured the legends (except cresselia and giratina), and it leaves me unable to SR for Groudon. ......plus idk how SRing and getting these perfect legends even work.
Gonna make a post under VGC help, since well this is just rate my team xD, i dont wanna delete this cause of all the good suggestions however. Thanks all!
