Pokemon VGC 2016 Metagame Megathread

[Rogue]

DISCLAIMER: I AM BY NO MEANS A VGC16 PRO. MY SETS AREN'T GOING TO BE 100% PERFECT. FIGHT ME IRL

Yo! It's Rogue, your least favorite mod! If you aren't aware, the rules for VGC16 have been posted. Here they are if you wanna read up, if you want the TLDR version, look below: http://www.pokemon.com/us/strategy/vgc-2...s-preview/

TLDR: A few Ubers/Boss Legends/Super-Good-And-Strong-Legends/Whatever you wanna call them; Are legal for VGC16. Except you can only have 2 per team. So basically, limited Ubers. (I'm gonna refer to them as ubers throughout my guides, just for sake of understanding) Here are the usable Ubers:

Mewtwo (+ mega x/y), Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre (+ primal), Groudon (+ primal), Rayquaza (+ Mega), Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (+ Origin), Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem (+ B&W), Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde.

I know a lot of our users are unfamiliar with these Pokemon. So I wanted to make go ahead and make a Metagame thread for VGC16. In this thread, users and I will be explaining these ubers capabilities, what you'll most likely see them use/what items they'll use, and some ideas on how to run these legandary Pokemon.  Keep in mind that this is made at the beginning of VGC16, so who knows what will change/if these sets will stay common, become bad, ect. Let's start with the Pokemon who I personally think is the BEST uber out of all of these.

Write ups;
Groudon
Dialga
Lugia
Kyogre
Mega Rayquaza
Yveltal

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(Couldn't get the gif to work, fight me.)

Primal Groudon
HP: 100
ATK: 180
DEF: 160
SPATK: 150
SPDEF: 90
SPE: 90

Typing: Fire / Ground

Ability: Desolate Land (Creates the Strong Sun weather. This lasts until the Pokémon exits battle, and renders Water-type moves useless)

What? Primal Groudon? This isn't Mega Rayquaza, Rogue, what're you thinking!
Lemme go ahead and say it: I don't think Mega Rayquaza is going to be absolutely broken in VGC. You can double target it, T-Wave it, it's easy to taunt so it doesn't DD, Sylveon/Xerneas/M-Gardevoir, Trick room, ect. In my opinion, Mega Kangaskhan is still the best mega choice. I said it, argue if you wish.

Any who, Primal Groudon! Not only is this the best Legendary in singles Ubers, I believe it's still the best in VGC16. It's typing is good, it's ability takes away it's water weakness, it can't be t-waved, can't be burned, has the strongest EQ (an even stronger eq with precipice blades, too), decent movepool, can be mixed... I think I'll stop there. So, what does our Primal Friend commonly run?

Also, look at how goods it's defense is.. +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 156-185 (89.1 - 105.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

BRUH

Physical speedy attacker:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb  
Ability: Desolate Land  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Earthquake / Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch  
- ? (I run T-Wave currently.)
- Protect

I know people usually stay away from 252/252 spreads, myself included: But this set is good as it is. With base 180 defense, and it's ground weakness usually being weakened due to the doubles format (EQ, Precipice blades), it's easy to run a fast and heavy hitter build. Speed is most important due to you wanting to win speed ties against opposing Primal Groudons and EQ them first. Fire punch for stab and the fact that it's just... ridiculously strong from our EV placement, it being stab, and it being even stronger due to the sun..Oh, and it can burn I guess. Protect is the best move in VGC, so run it. and your last move is really up to your team. Here are some good options for a filler move:

Thunder Wave, Thunder Punch, Hone Claws (helps Precipice blades hit!), Swords Dance, Rock Polish, Power-Up Punch, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, Substitute

Here come's another boring set, so bare with me!

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Speedy Special Attacker:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb  
Ability: Desolate Land  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Earth Power  
- Lava Plume  
- Protect  
- ? (I run Ancient Power currently)

So, why run special over physical? It really depends on the meta in my opinion. If intimidate spam comes even more common, that's a good reason. Another good reason is: Lava plume & Earth power. Lava plume has a 30% to burn, it's STAB, hit's everything so it's almost like using EQ so it isn't THAT much different, and it's boosted by the sun. Earth Power is great because it's strong & it's stab. It also beats opposing primal groudons! Assuming they aren't bulky ones, that is. Precipice blades and EQ won't OHKO a primal groudon, even if they're 0HP & 0DEF due to the doubles environment of weakening spread moves. So hopefully we can win a speed tie/outspeed an opposing primal groudon, surprise them with the Earth Power and OHKO them! Another reason to run special Groudon: Aegislash. It's kind of tough to face Aegislash as a physical attacker. EQ/Blades is blocked by wide guard, and fire punch can be caught by king's shield. We don't have to worry about this with Special, and we can drop an earth power on it! Once again, protect is the best in VGC.

Notable filler moves:
Ancient Power, Dragon Pulse, Eruption (can be fun), Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Focus Miss Blast, Hidden Power Ice, Overheat, Thunder/Thunderbolt (Helps against Primal Kyogre!), Solar Beam (WOOO FOREVER BEAMS)

Now for meeting in the middle!

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Mixed Primal Groudon #1:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb  
Ability: Desolate Land  
Level: 50  
EVs: 108 ATK / 148 SpA / 252 Spe  
Naive Nature  
- Earth Power  
- Earthquake / Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch  
- Protect

This set is basically used to beat... you guessed it. Opposing primal groudons. Max speed naive so can at the very least speed tie with other p-groudons, and Earth Power will OHKO your basic speedy physical attacker set. Earth Power also helps deal with Aegislash, breaking away from our 50/50 with EQ/fire punch.

Mixed Primal Groudon #2
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb  
Ability: Desolate Land  
Level: 50  
EVs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe  
Rash Nature  
- Overheat  
- Earthquake / Precipice Blades 
- Fire Punch  
- Protect

This set doesn't utilize Max speed with a speed + nature. My reasoning behind it is wanting to OHKO threats with Overheat. Things like Amoonguss, Dialga, Aegislash, ect. I wanted that damage over worrying about a speed + nature, since we won't be ohkoing opposing primal groudons with this set as it is.

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*A Favorite*
Swords Dance 2 STAB:
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb  
Ability: Desolate Land  
Level: 50  
EVs: 56 HP / 84 Atk / 116 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Swords Dance  
- Earthquake  
- Fire Punch  
- Protect

This is a really fun set, EV's are a little wild due to me making them in like 10 minutes. Basically here what it gets:
-Lives Earth Power from Heatran/Primal Groudon & even has a chance to live it from a LO Landorus.
-+2 Groudon basically destroys everything. Fire Punch OHKO'ing 252 HP mons like Xerneas, Yveltal, M-Kang, ect. EQ destroys things like Dialga, as well!
-3HKO'd by max SPA shadowball from Aegislash.
-+2 84 Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Caterpie in Harsh Sun: 8882-10452 (74016.6 - 87100%) -- guaranteed OHKO does this to a lv.1 caterpie. Just in case.
-Other good stuff I don't feel like typing because it's 3 AM.

Note: I feel like SD is better than rock polish or hone claws. Due to factors like the +1 atk from hone claws doesn't do enough for precipice blades due to doubles format. and Rock Polish is good, but tailwind is a thing so it'd be smarter in my opinion to run a tailwind mon if possible.

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*These, in my opinion are the current most optimal sets. I know 252/252 is somewhat lame for some of these, but I really feel like Primal Groudon is such a threat, it needs to be gone as soon as possible. A good way to beat primal groudon is primal groudon.

I thought about posting a set that's good under tailwind, but I feel like that's still scary because your opponent can also be running tailwind.

So, yeah. There are day 1 basic sets. I don't think these will change too much, but if they do it'll be team dependent. EV changes due to tailwind/trick room really. I think this mon is definitely the best choice out of your 2 slots, and should be utilized.

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Pairs well with: Mega Kangaskhan, Bisharp (helps scare off intimidate users), Thundurus, Yveltal, Aegislash, follow me users.

Fears: Opposing Primal Groudons, air balloon heatran depending on your set, primal kyogre, mega rayquaza, defensive foul play yveltal

[AbruptFury]

Nice to have sets while everyone is still trying to figure out what to prepare for BigBrother I'll try them out. I have some ideas for what I might pair on a team. Don't feel too bad about the 252 252 spreads, cuz like I said, the meta is still new. I sure hope the season will have more variety than the last. It left a CHALKy taste in my mouth kappa

[Podfighterninja123]

Alright Rogue, Now make a Rayray spread and a Cubchoo counter spread, it will make millions

[MightyGear]

Hey Guys since we now have Ubers in VGC i thought bout running Dialga (Telepathy) Teamup with Primal Kyogre  to cover Ground Weakness .

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dialga



HP:       100
ATK:     120
DEF:      120
SPATK:  150
SPDEF:  100
SPD:      90

/

So Dialga being in favor of the Unique Typecombination of Dragon and Steel making it farly resitant vs. many common weaknesses of each individual type.

It's basiclly only in struggle vs. Ground Type Moves. Thanks to it's Hidden Ability Telepathy it can become a strong Ally of Multiattack Mons.

Choice Scarf Dialga Support (with Primal Kyogre)

Item: @Choicescarf
Ability @Telepathy
Nature: Timid

EV Spread:
HP 4 EV
ATK 0 EV
DEF 0 EV
SPATK 252 EV
SPDEF: 0 EV
SPD 252 EV

Moves:
Thunder/Tbolt
Draco Meteor
Aura Sphere / Earth Power
Flash Cannon

Stats with EV Spread @Lvl 50:

HP:         176
ATK:       126
DEF:       140
SPATK:   202
SPDEF:   120
SPD:       138 (207 with Scarf)

This Set is used together with Primal Kyogre which is Setting Up Rain to enable moderate Thunder Hit's to possible Water Threats f.e. other P. Kyogre.
Thanks to the very spread Movepool of Dialga we have many options.


Time Control Dialga

Item: @Rocky Helmet / Sitrus Berry
Ability: @Telepathy
Nature: Quiet

EV Spread:
HP 212 EV
ATK 0 EV
DEF 156 EV
SPATK 20 EV
SPDEF 116 EV
SPD 0 EV

Moves:
Trick Room
Protect
Aura Sphere / Earth Power / Tbolt
Flash Cannon / Power Gem / Ice Beam / Dragon Pulse

Stats with EV Spread @Lvl 50:
HP:         202
ATK:       140
DEF:       160
SPATK:   190
SPDEF:   135
SPD:       85

This Set is used as Leader Set to enable Speed Control in Early Stage of Game.
The Other Moves can variey due Teamcomp and many Options given in Dialga's Movepool.

[Slec]

Ay yo I see you Rogue, people not wanting this SAVAGES in the meta game, I feel that. Guess what they in here, they already making themselves at home, hell I saw Groudon sitting down and eating a nice sandwich, Kyogre taking a bath, they here to stay, so now here is some power that won me a showdown tournament



Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 76 SpA / 20 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Protect

[Marcusube]

Upon the metagame being released, the major threats have been Kang, Xerneas and P-Groudon. Now since this new meta is basically a Weather War, you may need a means of Skill Swap or Role Play to reset the weather instead of switching. Just recently I posted a team here on the forums featuring Lugia, P-Kyogre and Scizor. I'll just share my Lugia build with you all

Shiren (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 84 HP / 172 Def / 204 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Aeroblast
- Skill Swap
- Roost

[AttilatheFun87]

Think worry seed would be worth trying as a way to temporarily stop opponents weather effects?

[jouzea]

I don't think i'm good with spreads but here's some info that you may need to watch out for (some of these may be old news to some of you guys):

Most usual mons i see is Pdon+Xern+MKang+supports.


I see Dark Void/Fakeout Lead with Geomancy Power Herb Xerneas a lot, a LOT. So taunt is really needed in this meta. Some run HP fire/ground xerneas for the steel type counters.


Fast physical Kang (bulky ones are laughable with the op attacks) with inner focus (for fakeouts). Prediction is what wins you in Kang mirror leads. Will they fakeout? Then don't mega just yet. Will they go on attack you with low kick/drain punch? Will they mega? some of the things to consider


I run fast physical sweeper PDon but still use eruption instead of fire punch, just to let my opponent think i have special since physical is more used (not that it's an effective mind game tbh). But some special Groudon took me by surprise so i know have to be prepared for them. Pdon with speed control is a beast. Prediction game is fun in this meta but still I like 2014 more.


SUPPORTS TO WATCH OUT FOR:
Ferrothorn is getting a lot of love, due to Xerneas and Kyogre running around. It also has that annoying leech seed+leftovers, so you need something to check it. Power whip and Gyro ball are awesome STABs. Iron barbs is a little useful against fight type attackers too. Most give it a SpD bulk to survive eruption/flamethrowers. Whatever you do, don't switch it in when there's a potential eruption coming.


Thundurus is getting rekt so some give them sash. It has the prankster+taunt to stop mons from setting up. Immune to precipice blades and can hit thunder in heavy rain, too.


Moody smeargle as always is a pain, but lead him with Xerneas it levels up the annoyance to eleven. Who should i taunt? Dark void Smeargle or Geomancy Xerneas? some Smeargles have fakeouts, too, so keep that in mind. Usually this freak also runs transform so good luck fighting two geomancied Xerneases. It also has spiky shield so don't be too obvious on your fakeouts. Good thing it isn't that fast without a scarf so you can go hit that painter to shreds, but take note that some give it sash. At least, if you have a priority or faster taunter you can prevent it from using dark void, but then again...Mental herb. Darn this mon is so annoying. It doesn't help that it has the moody ability, too.


Cresselia is crazy good with levitate, trick room, helping hand, but mostly skill swap. It can give Pogre/Pdon levitate for ground type attacks, or reactivate the weather. It has lum or mental herb for taunts and Dvoids. Can't remember if it was cresselia that used magic coat in my previous match but it ruins taunt/dvoid users. It also has gravity, iirc. Man, this one is good.


Liepard Prankster Swagger+Foul play, fakeout, Taunt, encore, thunder wave, crazy fast. nuf said.


Crobat has QUICK GUARD! Remember that. now what else; it has taunt to stop you from setting up, even w/o prankster, this bat is crazy fast; it has super fang like 2014 champ pachirisu; tailwind for support; and it's immune to precipice blades.

(It's a moustache)

Talonflame is back with a vengeance. Priority bravebird, whirlwind, has taunt too, uhm not really familiar with this bird, but i feel it's presence.





PS: I want to show some calcs but don't know how to, so sorry for that. I'm still a noob just sharing from what i see in showdown, so please correct me if i'm wrong. There're more mons to watch out for (Yveltal, Kyogre, Mray, Mence, Palkia, Dialga, Ho-oh) but some people may explain them better


Edit:Most Kyogres i saw have Ice beam, origin pulse, water spout, protect

[Rogue]

I'm really busy. But I'll try to continue this, because this site comes up on google's first page when you type in VGC16 in it.

I'll reformat this later, so bare with the messiness. Thank you to everyone's contributions, I'm not ignoring anyone: I'm just very busy with many different things. Gonna follow up with the next primal, Kyogre. I'll include Mudkips post as well. Let's-a go.

I'll be honest, I underestimated primal Kyogre when I first heard VGC16's rules. My only knowledge with this mon is from ubers, singles. Where I felt like it was meh and I never used it honestly. I still thought P-Kyogre would be good in this format, but not on par with P-Groudon. I actually use this primal the most in VGC16 honestly. However, I still think P-Groudon is the best mon in this format. However, I think P-Kyogre is a really good check to P-Groudon. I think it's kinda iffy to call it a counter, because Precipice Blades hits really hard. It can 2HKO standard P-Kyogres, and these monsters speed tie with eachother. So, kinda iffy to call it a counter. Anyways, moving on to the mon itself and it's sets ect

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Primal Kyogre
HP: 100
ATK: 150
DEF: 90
SPATK: 180
SPDEF: 160
SPE: 90

Typing: Water

Ability: Primordial Sea (Creates the Heavy Rain weather. This lasts until the Pokémon exits battle, and renders Fire-type moves useless)

If you hadn't noticed, the defenses/attacks stats are just like P-Groudons, but swapped. However, P-Groudon more out of the swapped attack values than P-Kyogre does. P-groudon can be mixed and used powerful moves like Earth Power & Eruption thanks to it's special attack stat of 150. P-Kyogre can't really do much with an attack stat of 150...Body slam Earthquake Waterfall P-Kyogre top tier. Anywho, enough of praising P-Groudon. Let me get into what I like about P-Kyogre.

Pros:
- Good check to Primal Groudon. Really nice to pop in and stop it's fire attacks
- Good SPDEF, nice to tank a geomancy xern for a hit when you need to set up something
- Origin Pulse is a more accurate Hydro Pump, and hits both enemies mons. RIP P-Groudon
- Gets access to Ice Beam, one of the best offensive moves imo (dragons, lando, even hits p-groudon decently)
- It can beat itself with Thunder (100% accurate thunder is nice too)
- Speed control in icy wind
- Calm Mind the bestest

Cons:
- Thundurus is a thing.
- It's most offensive moves (origin pulse/water spout) are nullified by desolate land
- Ferrothorn is mean
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 164-195 (93.7 - 111.4%) -- 69.9% chance to OHKO
- poor defense

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-Sets-

Standard standard standard:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse / Water Spout
- Ice Beam  
- Thunder / Thunder Wave /Origin Pulse (if water spout) / Hydro Pump / ECT
- Protect

zzzz max spa max spe zzz
it's a good and simple set hit hard be fast
yeah

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Fast special attacker:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
Level: 50  
EVs: 40 HP / 92 Def / 212 SpA / 164 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder  
- Ice Beam  
- Protect

My most used VGC16 team includes a whimsicott, and this set was made to work with it. The reason why is basically fake tears + Thunder OHKO's opposing primal kyogres, and I run just enough speed to outspeed modest max speed p-kyogre. Meaning I also outspeed adamant max speed P-Groudon. Which follows up with worry seed whimsicott to get rid of desolate land to OHKO with origin pulse.. You get the idea. 164 speed to outspeed adamant max speed landorus, and hp/def is to not get ohko'd by jolly m-kang double edge. Still standard set, but I like it because it's lightly optimized. Outspeed base 91's that aren't spe+ nature, still remains an offensive pressure, and slight bulk that actually matters to a common threat. Moving on. (used to use one to outspeed base 100's that aren't + spe but I missed the bulk/offensive pressure)

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Trick Room Spout:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 92 HP / 192 Def / 204 SpA / 20 SpD  
Quiet Nature  
- Water Spout  
- Ice Beam  
- Origin Pulse  
- Protect

Few things this set does:
Survives max attack jolly mega kang double edge
Survives modest max special attack +2 moonblast from Xerneas
Survives brave 204 attack power whip ferrothorn
Water spout does ridiculous damage when at full hp
Slower nature lets us get up primordial sea last when leading against lead primal groudons
Being slow, but not too slow outside of tr

I go for water spout over single water STAB simply because it's easy to spam at full hp under Trick room. Ice beam is good, and origin pulse is to use whenever weakened. simple set, I run a tailroom team with this set and it's kinda fun

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Fast Calm Mind Kyogre: (My favorite)
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 156 HP / 104 Def / 84 SpA / 164 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse  
- Ice Beam  
- Calm Mind  
- Protect

- Survives max atk jolly double edge from m-kang
- Outspeeds base 91's that aren't + spe nature
- 3HKO'd by max spatk +2 modest dazzling gleam from xerneas
- OHKO's standard kang with O-Pulse after one calm mind
- OHKO's standard mega ray with ice beam after one calm mind
- 80~% chance to survive brave 204 atk power whip from ferrothorn
- 2HKO's standard primal kyogre with ice beam after one calm mind
- 2HKO's 220 HP 212 SPD Calm cresselia with origin pulse after one calm mind
- depending how many calm minds you get off, can be a reliable check to geo xerneas
- probably forgetting something but it's almost 4 AM fight me

Mudkiplegends bulky calm mind kyogre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 76 SpA / 20 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Protect

similar to mine but slower, he might have changed it by now. but this one is much bulkier than mine HP wise. This one also utilizes tailwind or even trick room if you desire. which is more than likely what he ran it with. he could tell you more about it than me, shoot em a PM if you're interested in all the milestones

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blah blah stuff to look for/pairs/ect

Pairs:
I love using whimsicott with primal kyogre. Worry seed to stop desolate land, tailwind to make it faster, fake tears to make thunder/ice beam/origin pulse get easy OHKO's, encore/taunting threats like geomancy xerneas: Perfect team mate in my opinion.

Cresselia is also excellent. Trick room, helping hand, icy wind, reflect, skill swap: all help out primal kyogre. also levitate is nice because it can dodge precipice blades.

Mega Kangaskhan. lol.

Ferrothorn/Mega Mawile, Scizor, Things that are weak to fire of course.

Kyurem White is something else I've used, simply because life orb earth power beats primal groudon.

I've also used a support xerneas set which was amazing when paired with a calm mind kyogre, because I could heal pulse it back to full as it calm minded. so any heal pulse mon works well

Fears:
Can't switch into primal groudon too well if it lands precipice blades and wins the speed tie next turn. also it's best offensive moves cant be used in desolate land.

thundurus ferrothorn geomancy xerneas zzzz the obvious stuff

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too lazy to write more, it's 4 AM fight me again.
primal kyogre is pretty fun, I like calm mind. zzzzzzzzzz gonna go play disgaea 5 sorry if there's mistakes ill clean it up later zzzzz

[Rogue]

(Jan 9, 2016, 08:15 PM)AttilatheFun87 Wrote: Think worry seed would be worth trying as a way to temporarily stop opponents weather effects?

Yes, completely. I love using it on whimsicott.