Pokemon Forever
Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Printable Version

+- Pokemon Forever (http://pokemonforever.com)
+-- Forum: POKéMON (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-POK%C3%A9MON)
+--- Forum: Competitive Pokemon Discussion (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Pokemon-Discussion)
+---- Forum: Competitive Discussion Archive (http://pokemonforever.com/Forum-Competitive-Discussion-Archive)
+---- Thread: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles (/Thread-VGC-Opinions-using-Charizard-Y-in-VGC-Doubles)

Pages: 1 2

Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Black117 - Aug 30, 2015

Usually I don't ask for advice here but this one particular has been troublesome as of late and throughout much of the past months. So far I've been ok to use most of the top Mega Evolutions except for 1 particular standout: Charizard Y. Every time I try using Charizard Y I'm faced with teams who are well-built to handle with immediate responses to fire lizard such as Excadrill + T-Tar, Heatran, double genies, Double Edge from Kang/Mence, and some random Stone Edge users (though I think some area an outlier of sorts).

I've used Charizard Y early in the season with Mega Venusaur, but I realized more and more that I never chose Char Y do to these bad matchups. To be honest, speed control, Intimidate, Wide Guard, and another offensive partner (Scarf Tar, Sylveon, Greninja, Landorus-T) are almost an necessity for Charizard Y to function well since most are able to deal with those that threaten the threat I mentioned above.

Most Recent Charizard Y set.


[Image: charizard-megay.gif]
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 148 Def / 8 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Stats: 177 HP  / 98 Atk  / 116 Def / 198 SpA / 135 SpD / 141 Spe

Some Damage Calulcations



Defensive Calculations:
Main Bench Marks
- 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 188 HP / 148 Def Mega Charizard Y: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 146-174 (82.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 188 HP / 148 Def Mega Charizard Y: 153-182 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 8.6% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 188 HP / 148 Def Mega Charizard Y: 156-184 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 188 HP / 148 Def Mega Charizard Y: 76-90 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Offensive Calculations
Main Bench Marks:
- 8+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 176-210 (105.3 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 8+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 236 HP / 128+ SpD Thundurus in Sun: 118-141 (64.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- 8+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 164-194 (98.2 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
- 8+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 144-172 (86.2 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO


This is probably one of the better Charizard Y sets now and probably gonna be the new standard. Due to the threat of Wide Guard, I opted for Flamethrower for a larger damage output on one target. Solar Beam is for obvious reasons just to hit Rock, Ground, and Water types. HP Ground is something I picked up on with some matches from Battle Spot and its only for Heatran since its quad weak to Ground and most "grounded" Electric types. Then again I could see Tailwind being a viable option just for surprise speed control and to let Char Y outspeed and knock out threats with Flamethrower and Solar Beam. Cresselia and Sylveon works well with Charizard Y as both can support with either Pixilate Hyper Voice (Sylveon), speed control (Cresselia), and Helping Hand (both).

Edit 1: I guess I haven't explain my issue with Charizard Y, so I'll just change the topic about your opinion about Char Y in the metagame since I stupidly answered my own question. Usually this happens a ton of times before I post.

If you all have any suggestions about using Charizard Y, can you care to comment down below.

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Marcusube - Aug 30, 2015

To be honest, my major issue with running Zard Y is that in the case the opponent uses any form of speed control, particularly Thunder Wave, Zard is open to a lot of hits that either 2HKO or OHKO. It being outsped by Terrakion, scarfed Landorus-T, Landorus-I, Raichu etc, really gives it a good amount of bad lead matchups. The only merit I see in using Zard-Y over any other mega is its ability to replace weather conditions and deal powerful spread damage (if it doesn't miss. Seriously, Heat Wave's accuracy is a huge problem).

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Justin - Aug 30, 2015

I think support charizard is the only way to run it right now. Tailwind and will o are nasty. give it the bulk to take a rock slide by giving it intimidate user support. seriously non STAB intimidated rockslides are so weak. then tailwind or will-o-wisp and GG. I think flinch is scarier than Rock slide.

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Black117 - Aug 30, 2015

(Aug 30, 2015, 09:11 PM)Justin Wrote: I think support charizard is the only way to run it right now. Tailwind and will o are nasty. give it the bulk to take a rock slide by giving it intimidate user support. seriously non STAB intimidated rockslides are so weak. then tailwind or will-o-wisp and GG. I think flinch is scarier than Rock slide.

I think you were referring to Wolfey Glicke's Mega Charizaed X set since it did have dragon claw and flare blitz with those two moves. Usually you see Will-o-wisp X sets back in XY and Tailwind/Sword Dance (this is my experience using Zard X in Smogon). I never seen Mega Charizard X have both those moves like Wolfey's did yet I'm not surprised since Charizard X is somewhat better defensively than the way version, in fact it can wall Zard Y with its x4 resistant to fire.

Yeah Marcusube I've notice that you need to maintain speed control to win most battles since Charizard Y cannot afford to be hit at least a rock attack. Trick Room Mega Charizard Y can work really well since most Trick Room Pokemon are capable of beating the most common Rock Slide users. I think it's just all about finding those opputinities to sweep/clean up the game with Charizard Y.

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Pokeventurer - Aug 30, 2015

Well i think i can give you some advice regarding this one. you mentioned that char- is nuked by speed control right? well i do have a team right here which auto-fixes this issue:  http://pokeventurer.blogspot.com/2015/08/charizards-trick-room-teambuild-vgc15.html

I came up to using a trick room charizard *note: most might think i picked this off of mark's winning team, but seriously i did this team about a month or two ago from worlds and was my own silly, or whatever you think idea* since it was a base 100 and garde was picking up popularity to counter it defensively and also me a trick room master i choose charizard. it guarantees to outspeed any rock slide use *except hari or conk* mostly lando and nukes it back with an overheat or a move of your own choice.
Since speed control is something you suffer from while using this mon, trick room might be ideal choice for it in your playstyle
Hope this helps! Smile

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Justin - Aug 30, 2015

(Aug 30, 2015, 11:31 PM)Pokeventurer Wrote: Well i think i can give you some advice regarding this one. you mentioned that char- is nuked by speed control right? well i do have a team right here which auto-fixes this issue:  http://pokeventurer.blogspot.com/2015/08/charizards-trick-room-teambuild-vgc15.html

I came up to using a trick room charizard *note: most might think i picked this off of mark's winning team, but seriously i did this team about a month or two ago from worlds and was my own silly, or whatever you think idea* since it was a base 100 and garde was picking up popularity to counter it defensively and also me a trick room master i choose charizard. it guarantees to outspeed any rock slide use *except hari or conk* mostly lando and nukes it back with an overheat or a move of your own choice.
Since speed control is something you suffer from while using this mon, trick room might be ideal choice for it in your playstyle
Hope this helps! Smile

Good call. Similar to t-room mega kang. It's still slow enough to work!

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Rogue - Aug 31, 2015

Honestly, mega charizard Y is so weird to me. I'm not gonna say it's a bad mega or anything, I just feel like it's kind of a... situational mega?

I feel like this mega either does a huge amount of work on a team, or is virtually useless. Like there's no in-between with it. I feel like charizard-y is better off on a dual mega team if we're talking fully competitive play. There's just too many common threats in my opinion that render it useless.

So I'd say thats where zard y really shines, and is used at it's best. Of course it's my opinion.
Otherwise, I'd say tailroom?

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - GiMYz - Aug 31, 2015

Double Genies + Cresselia (with both Icy Wind/TWave and Trick Room) work extremely well with M-CharY

Lando-T for Intimidate and to spam STAB Earthquakes against opposing Fire types which might wall M-CharY (Heatran, Snarl Entei/Arcanine)

Thundy to prevent any Heatran from using Substitute and to spam TWave (making CharY faster than the opposing pokemon, which should be your goal every match to make sure you can fire off at least one or two strong attacks - probably OHKOs)

With Cress you have the option of going slow or fast mode depending on the matchup and it's one of your safest leads.

PS: ok i know that i might sound stupid when i say double genies works well with M-CharY - because they always perform well - but in this case more than in other cases there are no other pokemon which can accomplish their role in this team better than they do.

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - DanielJames - Aug 31, 2015

So I recently found a team report by a user named Bopper on Nugget Bridge that used Charizard Y and performed well. I'm going to copy and paste his build and explanation.

"Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
– Flamethrower
– Tailwind
– Solar Beam
– Protect

OHKOs 252HP/156SDef Aegislash with sun boosted flamethrower
Survives a Rock Slide from -1 Jolly Terrakion
Survives Choice Specs boosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon 93.7% of the time
Outspeeds Adamant Landorus-T by 2 points, hitting 145 speed

Charizard was one of the megas that not a lot of people really believed in going into Nationals. Due to the large spike in usage of the famous Japanese sand team with Mega Salamence, Charizard didn’t seem to be a great play for the event. However, Charizard has amazing matchups against some of the top pokemon when supported correctly. There are always some matchups where Charizard severely lacks the offensive pressure that I love to apply. It was situations like these that made me want to try out Tailwind on Charizard in order to fill a support role for whenever Charizard couldn’t apply much offensive pressure on its own. With the use of Tailwind, I was able to set up a lot of really weird win conditions that my opponents didn’t really see coming, and these win conditions were usually able to immediately lock up games."

The other team members are Landorus, Thundurus, Conkeldurr, Sylveon, and Milotic. This team has been one of the best teams I have ever used. It performs well because of the support that Charizard gets and just to the simple fact that Charizard is also a threat as well when used correctly. I highly suggest trying the team out. I'll post a link to the rest of the team.

http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/flaming-indiana-us-nationals-top-4-report/

RE: Opinions using Charizard Y in VGC/Doubles - Pokeventurer - Aug 31, 2015

(Aug 31, 2015, 06:54 AM)DanielJames Wrote: So I recently found a team report by a user named Bopper on Nugget Bridge that used Charizard Y and performed well. I'm going to copy and paste his build and explanation.

"Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
– Flamethrower
– Tailwind
– Solar Beam
– Protect

OHKOs 252HP/156SDef Aegislash with sun boosted flamethrower
Survives a Rock Slide from -1 Jolly Terrakion
Survives Choice Specs boosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon 93.7% of the time
Outspeeds Adamant Landorus-T by 2 points, hitting 145 speed

Charizard was one of the megas that not a lot of people really believed in going into Nationals. Due to the large spike in usage of the famous Japanese sand team with Mega Salamence, Charizard didn’t seem to be a great play for the event. However, Charizard has amazing matchups against some of the top pokemon when supported correctly. There are always some matchups where Charizard severely lacks the offensive pressure that I love to apply. It was situations like these that made me want to try out Tailwind on Charizard in order to fill a support role for whenever Charizard couldn’t apply much offensive pressure on its own. With the use of Tailwind, I was able to set up a lot of really weird win conditions that my opponents didn’t really see coming, and these win conditions were usually able to immediately lock up games."

The other team members are Landorus, Thundurus, Conkeldurr, Sylveon, and Milotic. This team has been one of the best teams I have ever used. It performs well because of the support that Charizard gets and just to the simple fact that Charizard is also a threat as well when used correctly. I highly suggest trying the team out. I'll post a link to the rest of the team.

http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/flaming-indiana-us-nationals-top-4-report/

Blake got 3rd at nats with this team, btw did you know that? He is an impressive players loved to see him get so far with this!