Pokemon VGC 2016 Metagame Megathread

[Rogue]

I'm really busy. But I'll try to continue this, because this site comes up on google's first page when you type in VGC16 in it.

I'll reformat this later, so bare with the messiness. Thank you to everyone's contributions, I'm not ignoring anyone: I'm just very busy with many different things. Gonna follow up with the next primal, Kyogre. I'll include Mudkips post as well. Let's-a go.

I'll be honest, I underestimated primal Kyogre when I first heard VGC16's rules. My only knowledge with this mon is from ubers, singles. Where I felt like it was meh and I never used it honestly. I still thought P-Kyogre would be good in this format, but not on par with P-Groudon. I actually use this primal the most in VGC16 honestly. However, I still think P-Groudon is the best mon in this format. However, I think P-Kyogre is a really good check to P-Groudon. I think it's kinda iffy to call it a counter, because Precipice Blades hits really hard. It can 2HKO standard P-Kyogres, and these monsters speed tie with eachother. So, kinda iffy to call it a counter. Anyways, moving on to the mon itself and it's sets ect

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Primal Kyogre
HP: 100
ATK: 150
DEF: 90
SPATK: 180
SPDEF: 160
SPE: 90

Typing: Water

Ability: Primordial Sea (Creates the Heavy Rain weather. This lasts until the Pokémon exits battle, and renders Fire-type moves useless)

If you hadn't noticed, the defenses/attacks stats are just like P-Groudons, but swapped. However, P-Groudon more out of the swapped attack values than P-Kyogre does. P-groudon can be mixed and used powerful moves like Earth Power & Eruption thanks to it's special attack stat of 150. P-Kyogre can't really do much with an attack stat of 150...Body slam Earthquake Waterfall P-Kyogre top tier. Anywho, enough of praising P-Groudon. Let me get into what I like about P-Kyogre.

Pros:
- Good check to Primal Groudon. Really nice to pop in and stop it's fire attacks
- Good SPDEF, nice to tank a geomancy xern for a hit when you need to set up something
- Origin Pulse is a more accurate Hydro Pump, and hits both enemies mons. RIP P-Groudon
- Gets access to Ice Beam, one of the best offensive moves imo (dragons, lando, even hits p-groudon decently)
- It can beat itself with Thunder (100% accurate thunder is nice too)
- Speed control in icy wind
- Calm Mind the bestest

Cons:
- Thundurus is a thing.
- It's most offensive moves (origin pulse/water spout) are nullified by desolate land
- Ferrothorn is mean
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 164-195 (93.7 - 111.4%) -- 69.9% chance to OHKO
- poor defense

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-Sets-

Standard standard standard:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse / Water Spout
- Ice Beam  
- Thunder / Thunder Wave /Origin Pulse (if water spout) / Hydro Pump / ECT
- Protect

zzzz max spa max spe zzz
it's a good and simple set hit hard be fast
yeah

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Fast special attacker:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
Level: 50  
EVs: 40 HP / 92 Def / 212 SpA / 164 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder  
- Ice Beam  
- Protect

My most used VGC16 team includes a whimsicott, and this set was made to work with it. The reason why is basically fake tears + Thunder OHKO's opposing primal kyogres, and I run just enough speed to outspeed modest max speed p-kyogre. Meaning I also outspeed adamant max speed P-Groudon. Which follows up with worry seed whimsicott to get rid of desolate land to OHKO with origin pulse.. You get the idea. 164 speed to outspeed adamant max speed landorus, and hp/def is to not get ohko'd by jolly m-kang double edge. Still standard set, but I like it because it's lightly optimized. Outspeed base 91's that aren't spe+ nature, still remains an offensive pressure, and slight bulk that actually matters to a common threat. Moving on. (used to use one to outspeed base 100's that aren't + spe but I missed the bulk/offensive pressure)

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Trick Room Spout:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 92 HP / 192 Def / 204 SpA / 20 SpD  
Quiet Nature  
- Water Spout  
- Ice Beam  
- Origin Pulse  
- Protect

Few things this set does:
Survives max attack jolly mega kang double edge
Survives modest max special attack +2 moonblast from Xerneas
Survives brave 204 attack power whip ferrothorn
Water spout does ridiculous damage when at full hp
Slower nature lets us get up primordial sea last when leading against lead primal groudons
Being slow, but not too slow outside of tr

I go for water spout over single water STAB simply because it's easy to spam at full hp under Trick room. Ice beam is good, and origin pulse is to use whenever weakened. simple set, I run a tailroom team with this set and it's kinda fun

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Fast Calm Mind Kyogre: (My favorite)
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb  
Ability: Primordial Sea  
EVs: 156 HP / 104 Def / 84 SpA / 164 Spe  
Timid Nature  
- Origin Pulse  
- Ice Beam  
- Calm Mind  
- Protect

- Survives max atk jolly double edge from m-kang
- Outspeeds base 91's that aren't + spe nature
- 3HKO'd by max spatk +2 modest dazzling gleam from xerneas
- OHKO's standard kang with O-Pulse after one calm mind
- OHKO's standard mega ray with ice beam after one calm mind
- 80~% chance to survive brave 204 atk power whip from ferrothorn
- 2HKO's standard primal kyogre with ice beam after one calm mind
- 2HKO's 220 HP 212 SPD Calm cresselia with origin pulse after one calm mind
- depending how many calm minds you get off, can be a reliable check to geo xerneas
- probably forgetting something but it's almost 4 AM fight me

Mudkiplegends bulky calm mind kyogre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 76 SpA / 20 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Protect

similar to mine but slower, he might have changed it by now. but this one is much bulkier than mine HP wise. This one also utilizes tailwind or even trick room if you desire. which is more than likely what he ran it with. he could tell you more about it than me, shoot em a PM if you're interested in all the milestones

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blah blah stuff to look for/pairs/ect

Pairs:
I love using whimsicott with primal kyogre. Worry seed to stop desolate land, tailwind to make it faster, fake tears to make thunder/ice beam/origin pulse get easy OHKO's, encore/taunting threats like geomancy xerneas: Perfect team mate in my opinion.

Cresselia is also excellent. Trick room, helping hand, icy wind, reflect, skill swap: all help out primal kyogre. also levitate is nice because it can dodge precipice blades.

Mega Kangaskhan. lol.

Ferrothorn/Mega Mawile, Scizor, Things that are weak to fire of course.

Kyurem White is something else I've used, simply because life orb earth power beats primal groudon.

I've also used a support xerneas set which was amazing when paired with a calm mind kyogre, because I could heal pulse it back to full as it calm minded. so any heal pulse mon works well

Fears:
Can't switch into primal groudon too well if it lands precipice blades and wins the speed tie next turn. also it's best offensive moves cant be used in desolate land.

thundurus ferrothorn geomancy xerneas zzzz the obvious stuff

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too lazy to write more, it's 4 AM fight me again.
primal kyogre is pretty fun, I like calm mind. zzzzzzzzzz gonna go play disgaea 5 sorry if there's mistakes ill clean it up later zzzzz