I actually got the chance to participate in the suspect test, got th reps, and yes, voted to ban Greninja in the end. I'm probably gonna repeat the same things as Rouge and Naitre said but here goes.
Greninja was, IMO the best revenge killer in the OU tier because of its amazing, yet trollish speed tier, wide coverage it gets, offensive capability with protean (btw this can actually work defensively to take hits if needed), and the surprisingly sheer unpredictability. Before the demo data mine leak and ORAS release, most smogon ou tiered players agreed Greninja was somewhat of a low S-tier mon but can be managable. Greninja had its checks and counters in AV Azu, Clefable, Ferrothorn (lacking HP Fire), M-Venusaur (lacking extrasensory), Sylveon, Chansey, Keldeo, Empoleon, AV Conkeldurr, etc. With ORAS Greninja received both gunk shot and (dk if people mention this) low kick which were unexpected godsends to the frog. Basically gunk shot nukes every fairy in the game while doing almost around half to would be counters like Conk, Keldeo, Chansey, etc. Low kick basically allows Greg to beat down its "new counters" in Empoleon and Chansey while not forgoing hydro miss (water stab) to kick T-tar and Ferrothorn hard. I know you guys are probably wondering these are physical attacks and Greg is know for being a special attacker primarily, but mixed Greninjas was the best Greninja set before ban.
Sample Greninja Set @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Extrasensory/HP Fire/HP Grass
This sample Greninja hits all its would be counter hard (for a 2hko), while still capable of revenge killing most weaken pokemon after stealth rock damage. Notice how there are four moveslots in the last set, honestly Greninja can already 2hko most pokemon with the combination of gunk shot, low kick, and ice beam. This goes to show how powerful Greninja in tandem with protean and can pressure balance, and bulky offensive teams. Best part is Greg can still work around attacks tailored for its teammates to provide counter-measures against its counters. I'll include a damage calculations below:
Damage Calculations with stealth rocks in play
Honestly my favorite calculations are against offensive M-Venusaur and M-Metagross since it goes to show you the power of protean as an powerful offensive ability. Ice beam kill gets most of the relevant kos, gunk shot hits most things in ou hard, and low kick can do sizable damage and can ohko threats like T-tar and Heatran (while not relying on hydro miss). In short, Greninja has very few counters that can switch into any moves and most of the time Greg will be doing damage to itself from life orb and stealth rocks. Players need to have a designated counters or checks to at least beat Greninja but problem is you still have the rest of its team to worry about. Thing is these counter, checks and noteably random scarfers can be scouted and stopped by the opposing team if necessary. Once the opposing team is weaken, Geninja can just come in when given the chance, and clean up from there. I don't think Greninja is broken on the scale of some notable bans like M-Lucario and Blaziken but it just became so centralizing because of its trait in the 6v6 single metagame which was why I voted ban.
Greninja was, IMO the best revenge killer in the OU tier because of its amazing, yet trollish speed tier, wide coverage it gets, offensive capability with protean (btw this can actually work defensively to take hits if needed), and the surprisingly sheer unpredictability. Before the demo data mine leak and ORAS release, most smogon ou tiered players agreed Greninja was somewhat of a low S-tier mon but can be managable. Greninja had its checks and counters in AV Azu, Clefable, Ferrothorn (lacking HP Fire), M-Venusaur (lacking extrasensory), Sylveon, Chansey, Keldeo, Empoleon, AV Conkeldurr, etc. With ORAS Greninja received both gunk shot and (dk if people mention this) low kick which were unexpected godsends to the frog. Basically gunk shot nukes every fairy in the game while doing almost around half to would be counters like Conk, Keldeo, Chansey, etc. Low kick basically allows Greg to beat down its "new counters" in Empoleon and Chansey while not forgoing hydro miss (water stab) to kick T-tar and Ferrothorn hard. I know you guys are probably wondering these are physical attacks and Greg is know for being a special attacker primarily, but mixed Greninjas was the best Greninja set before ban.
Sample Greninja Set @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump/Extrasensory/HP Fire/HP Grass
This sample Greninja hits all its would be counter hard (for a 2hko), while still capable of revenge killing most weaken pokemon after stealth rock damage. Notice how there are four moveslots in the last set, honestly Greninja can already 2hko most pokemon with the combination of gunk shot, low kick, and ice beam. This goes to show how powerful Greninja in tandem with protean and can pressure balance, and bulky offensive teams. Best part is Greg can still work around attacks tailored for its teammates to provide counter-measures against its counters. I'll include a damage calculations below:
Damage Calculations with stealth rocks in play
Honestly my favorite calculations are against offensive M-Venusaur and M-Metagross since it goes to show you the power of protean as an powerful offensive ability. Ice beam kill gets most of the relevant kos, gunk shot hits most things in ou hard, and low kick can do sizable damage and can ohko threats like T-tar and Heatran (while not relying on hydro miss). In short, Greninja has very few counters that can switch into any moves and most of the time Greg will be doing damage to itself from life orb and stealth rocks. Players need to have a designated counters or checks to at least beat Greninja but problem is you still have the rest of its team to worry about. Thing is these counter, checks and noteably random scarfers can be scouted and stopped by the opposing team if necessary. Once the opposing team is weaken, Geninja can just come in when given the chance, and clean up from there. I don't think Greninja is broken on the scale of some notable bans like M-Lucario and Blaziken but it just became so centralizing because of its trait in the 6v6 single metagame which was why I voted ban.
