Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron tail
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
This set is ver similiar to Swords Dance UU Absol but i replaced knock off for iron tail. Just to get rid of the fairy types that absolutely DESTROY absol because of his low Sp. def.
Sucker punch is very obvious because of the stab priority move ( if the target attacks the same turn).
Play rough is just to get rid of the fighting types that destroy absol aswell.
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 216 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
Sleep powder is there ofcourse to stall the opponent and get as much done to the opponent as Tangrowth can do to his opponent.
Giga drain is there just to heal tangrowth as much as it can so he can soak up more hits and deal out more damage.
Knock Off is there for a very obvious reason when an opponent has an item you want to get rid off you just use knock off and Voila! the item is completely gone!
Earthquake is there to give some coverage against fire types and to just deal as much damage as possible.
Nov 14, 2016, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: Nov 14, 2016, 09:17 AM by croissant.)
No they are not. They do not have synergy, because they can't counter each others' counters or support each others in any way while also stacking weaknesses against the Bug type, which is horrible considering that U-Turn is one of the best of most common moves in the OU metagame. @Marcusube just because two Pokémon are viable in OU, doesn't mean they work together, think about that next time you try to help someone.
Actually, Mega Absol and Tangrowth can synergize if done properly. Firstly, Absol is pretty frail and prone to priority attackers and strong physical attackers. Absol also finds trouble picking off bulky Water types primarily Rotom-W in OU. Tangrowth is weak to special attackers, even down to ones such as Choice Specs Keldeo due to its abysmal bulk. Now bug isn't a very common typing in the OU tier. Off the top of my head only M-Scizor, Landorus-Therian and Keldeo (some variants) run Bug coverage but that's mostly U-turn or HP Bug to hit Slowbro in Keldeo's case so type synergy isn't much of an issue. The only issue here is that the core is weak to special attackers such as Gengar (if Absol doesn't Mega Evolve prior), Charizard-Y, Heatran, Amoonguss, and pretty much any common wallbreaker like Kyurem-B, Keldeo and so forth (hate to say "so forth" but this tier has a lot). Speed is also an issue especially because Absol gets outsped by Mega Manectric, Mega Lopunny and a huge range of scarf users and generally faster Pokemon. It isn't a bad core however. Tangrowth effectively checks threats to Absol such as Excadrill (under sand), Azumarill, Keldeo (bar specs unless you're running AV), Ferrothorn (but you need to run fighting coverage for it to counter), Offensive Garchomp (tankchomp has fire blast), Hippowdon, Mega Lopunny, Rotom-W (bar status infliction) and Slowbro (non Fire Blast/Psychic/Ice Beam) variants. Mega-Absol effectively takes on every hard hitting Psychic and Ghost type in the tier with its STAB and can run coverage to pick off Chansey, Skarmory, Garchomp, Keldeo, Landorus-Therian, Magnezone and so forth.
This core will need a third member to function
It isn't plausible to say that the core isn't viable due to just type synergy especially if it's geared towards a more offensive than defensive playstyle
And to what @"Elly" said, I misunderstood the question @TheDancingRoserade asked because he/she reviewed each Pokemon individually and not as a core so yeah...but you're right about viability not being equal to synergy
@Marcusube You made a lot of good points in your previous message, but I would like to point out some stuff:
1- While I agree U-Turn isn't run on a ton of Pokémon, Landorus-T, being the most used user of this move, is literally on over 1/3 OR/AS OU teams, and thus this definitely shouldn't be neglected.
2- You mentioned quite a few Pokémon in your brief analysis to show the synergy of this core, but some of them are not checked at all by either of these: Keldeo (the most common set being Specs) wears down Tangrowth a lot, and without AV it isn't a good check at all.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 286-338 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 213-252 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 244 HP / 48 SpD Tangrowth: 155-183 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (not taking the chance to burn into account).
Keep in mind I din't take any hazards into account.
Also, Azumarill kills Tangrowth with Play Rough after a Belly Drum, which is the most common (and best) set atm.
3- You said that the shared weaknesses didn't matter too much if headed towards an offensive team, but Tangrowth only works well with Balance and Bulky Offense. While the last playstyle mentioned is offensive, sharing weaknesses is very, very bad for there kind of teams since they already get worn down easily and are generally slower.
Overall, I might have been a bit harsh towards that core, but I stand by what I said.
To 1, Absol and Tangrowth aren't switchins to Landorus-Therian and it's possible to run a Pokemon which can check it more effectively, and Tangrowth can 1v1 Landorus if Landorus is defensive which is the most common set. Not to mention how Regenerator and Giga Drain both allow Tangrowth to sustain itself
To 2, "The only issue here is that the core is weak to special attackers such as Gengar (if Absol doesn't Mega Evolve prior), Charizard-Y, Heatran, Amoonguss, and pretty much any common wallbreaker like Kyurem-B, Keldeo" and "Tangrowth effectively checks threats to Absol such as Excadrill (under sand), Azumarill, Keldeo (bar specs unless you're running AV)"
Bar specs means specs Keldeo isn't checked by Tangrowth
Tangrowth CHECKS Azumarill but doesn't COUNTER it. Check means that under most situations, Tangrowth wins against Azumarill as opposed to if I said counter which would mean that Tangrowth 100% walls and stops Azumarill in its tracks
To 3, Bulky Offense is still offense and the point on type synergy still stands for that. Absol doesn't work on Balanced offense due to its inability to take a hit, support the team effectively with any form of status or utility (maybe Baton Pass can be useful, who knows)
Type synergy only matters when considering a defensive core or an offensive core. Defensive synergy because each member of the core needs to be able to take a hit that would be super effective to another and offensive synergy because if one Pokemon cannot carry the coverage to take on a certain threat, another member of the core needs to be able to and the movepools shouldn't overlap in redundancy. Saying type synergy matters for an entire team is basically saying that a team of for instance
Azumarill, Tangrowth, Heatran, Latios, Weavile and Conkeldurr
is solid because each member of the team has a switch in, when in reality a team like this gets steamrolled by an offensive DSF core or even the basic Lando/Lati/Keldeo core
What I'm saying is, you can't use type matchups only to make a good team. Half of the metagame is identifying threats and engineering counters to them and having those counters blend in with your original team idea
And of course, there is nothing wrong with 2-3 Pokemon sharing weaknesses because realistically that situation is going to come up 70% of the time you teambuild due to the majority of the Pokemon in the OU tier being weak to Ice, Fairy, Dark, Fighting and Grass(Electric)
Nov 14, 2016, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: Nov 14, 2016, 06:53 PM by croissant.)
(Nov 14, 2016, 06:25 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Absol and Tangrowth aren't switchins to Landorus-Therian and it's possible to run a Pokemon which can check it more effectively
So the core has a big weakness and it has to be fixed, which is why I said it probably wasn't a good base for a team since a core is often described has two (or three) who can counter/check each others' checks and don't really share weaknesses (which is obviously why a core is effective or it isn't). Then again you said the core needed another Pokémon, so I can't say too much about that.
(Nov 14, 2016, 06:25 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Tangrowth can 1v1 Landorus if Landorus is defensive which is the most common set. Not to mention how Regenerator and Giga Drain both allow Tangrowth to sustain itself
My point is that it gives Lando a free U-Turn, which (obviously) allows you too switch, so in most situations Lando won't have to 1v1 Tangrowth, and since they run Lefties over Rocky Helmet, it can't even hurt it since it will U-Turn around.
I read that quickly and got it wrong, so I'm completely sorry about that.
(Nov 14, 2016, 06:25 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Type synergy only matters when considering a defensive core or an offensive core
That is true, but a core are often either an offensive/defensive core, which (as you said) need type synergy, or a balanced core, which doesn't necessarily need type synergy. But, balanced core are (often) based on a Pokémon supporting the other, and Tangrowth doesn't help against much in my opinion. Then again, that is my point of view, because you could probably name a ton of Pokémon/moves/whatever that could be handled by Tangrowth and that would be threatening to Absol, and I could probably go on for hours about why they don't have synergy and/or that Tangrowth can't handle most threats to Absol/support it.
(Nov 14, 2016, 06:25 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Saying type synergy matters for an entire team is basically saying that a team of for instance
Azumarill, Tangrowth, Heatran, Latios, Weavile and Conkeldurr
is solid because each member of the team has a switch in, when in reality a team like this gets steamrolled by an offensive DSF core or even the basic Lando/Lati/Keldeo core
I think you either misunderstood what I said or I wasn't clear enough (in which case I am sorry about that): I meant that starting your team with a core that share a common weakness that is very common in the current metagame isn't very good in my opinion because, like I previously said, a core is two (or three) Pokémon who can counter/check each others' checks and don't really share weaknesses, which is why you usually start your team with the core; it gives you a solid start.
I didn't answer some stuff, either because I thought you were right about some points or because some stuff was a bit obvious. At the end of the day, I don't think it's good and you think it is, so let's agree to disagree @Marcusube ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Alright so without the intention of continuing this argument, we both made valid points and I'm pretty sure Roserade can use the information that we both provided to come to his/her verdict
