[RATE MY TEAM] [VGC17] Torkoal/Oran/Lilli core

[Arkahn]

Hello,
Before I played only in BSS, but recently I wanted to try VGC 17 and I was interested of the Trick room team, especialy the Sun Trick room.
I kept the core from the begining, but I change many times the last 2 - 3 slots and now I think to found a good team, who can be improved, of course.


Torkoal @ Charcoal  
Ability: Drought  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD  
Quiet Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe  
- Eruption  
- Heat Wave  
- Solar Beam  
- Protect  

Classic Torkoal, I prefer Charcoal than the Choice specs, because Protect is almost mandatory in my opinion. I started with Flamethrower instead of Heat Wave, because of Wide Guard, but finaly, his role is to do massive spread damages and I can find a way to prevent Wide Guard, like Sleep Powder from Lilligant.


Lilligant (F) @ Focus Sash  
Ability: Chlorophyll  
Level: 50  
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Leaf Storm  
- Sleep Powder  
- After You  
- Protect  

Again, classic Lilligant in this core, Leaf Storm instead of HP Ice, Ground because it's a big nuke, especialy if I switch into Tapu Bulu and his Grassy Terrain !
252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 174-206 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Grassy Terrain: 145-172 (87.3 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko in Grassy Terrain: 207-244 (141.7 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lilligant Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 186-220 (101.6 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Oranguru @ Mental Herb  
Ability: Inner Focus  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SpA / 92 Spe  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe  
- Psychic  
- Trick Room  
- Instruct  
- Sunny Day  

Inner Focus, to prevent any flinch from Fake Out or Rock Slide and I didnt really need Telepathy in this team.
I used Protect instead of Sunny Day before, but I lost some game, because of the Weather War and Sunny Day on him, help me a lot for that and Oranguru is enoughly bulky to not use Protect.
20 SpA to OHKO Salazzle
20 SpA Oranguru Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 144-170 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Tapu Bulu @ Miracle Seed  
Ability: Grassy Surge  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Def  
Adamant Nature  
- Wood Hammer  
- Horn Leech  
- Substitute  
- Protect  

It help me against others Tapu, Gastrodon, Gyarados... Good core with Torkoal to help him against Earthquake, recover some HP for Eruption and win against Water, Rock and Ground Pokémon, who give some troubles to Torkoal.
Like I said before, he improve Lilligant's Leaf Storm a lot, but I have to be careful about the same weakness he share with her.
Good duo with A-Muk too.
252 HP / 108 Def to resist 1 Poison Jab from Garchomp
252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Tapu Bulu: 148-176 (83.6 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Muk-Alola @ Figy Berry  
Ability: Gluttony  
Level: 50  
EVs: 188 HP / 244 Atk / 44 Def / 20 SpD / 12 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Poison Jab  
- Knock Off  
- Protect  
- Curse  

He help me against every Tapu, because most of them are difficult to beat and he win against A-Marowak, another Pokémon, who can beat my team.
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 188 HP / 44 Def Muk-Alola: 220-260 (107.8 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Gluttony Figy Berry recovery
244+ Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Marowak-Alola: 144-170 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Curse because it works well in a Trick Room team and I didnt really need a priority move like Shadown Sneak.


Garchomp @ Groundium Z  
Ability: Rough Skin  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Earthquake  
- Dragon Claw  
- Poison Jab  
- Rock Slide 

I use him from the begining, but in first I use an AV set and finally I tried the Groundium Z, Z-Earthquake gave me some wins so I decided to keep it.
Poison Jab against the Tapu.
Rock Slide against Araquanid, Vikavolt... and for the flinch.

So, I want to improve this team and especialy, I want to improve it with the next season, where I guess the National Pokedex will be available (I hope  )
Thank you in advance !

[Justin]

I think the meta is still developing so it's tough to say what you might need exactly.

The team seems reletively solid, but might get punished if you lose torkoal.

Gyarados/Arcanine could be an issue here too. Intimidate could really hurt your 3 most powerful attackers. 

That being said I think this team can do very well right now. It all comes down to matchup and Pokemon selection.

[Black117]

@Arkahn As is the team is ok though I feel as you said it can be improved upon. Lets start with the Torkoal-Liligant core since this is perhaps the main offense of your team. There's not really much to say regarding the core itself since it comes down to several minds games whether you go for After You Eruption, protect one-attack with the other, or even double protect. If anything will suggest how to beat opposing weather matchups since those are rather problematic for Torkoal - Liligant.

Honestly, Oranguru doesn't offer much for the team aside Trick Room support, which even then without Protect or Sitrus Berry it needs to in case it were ever double target. Could recommend Porygon2 or something more offensive like Tapu Lele for that psychic slot. If anything, Arcanine + Tapu Fini will be a rather annoying lead combination against this team so I can suggest a rather weird Nihilego set with Focus Sash and Trick Room. Yes Nihilego does have Trick Room and is bulk on the special side to even pull this off. It will miss having HP Ice for Garchomp, but on a sash set it wont get the OHKOs any more.

Garchomp can forgo Dragon Claw and Rock Slide in favor of both Protect for obvious reasons (scout/position) and for coverage against Kartana. Not much to say though Substitute is an interesting option for Z-Earthquake Garchomp.

Do Feel like Celesteela can work on this team for defensive support and to sure up some weaknesses like Ground, Rock, and Ice. Celesteela can try to abuse the sun and use Flamethrower to get the edge over opposing variants and other Steel-types as well.

For Tapu Bulu, you could go with this set, and my only suggestion there is to change one of the Grass-type STABs in favor of Rock Slide for Fire-, Flying, and Ice-type Pokemon.

Here's the team as is:

Lilligant (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- After You
- Protect

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Fire Fang
- Protect

Tapu Bulu @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Substitute
- Protect

Nihilego @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Trick Room
- Protect

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 204 Atk / 148 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

[Arkahn]

First of all, thank you for your replies and I already changed some Pokémon in my team.


I tried the FiriumZ but it didnt worked well, so I kept the Charcoal.


I really like to play it, but the accuracy of Sleep Powder and even Leaf Storm made me crazy sometimes and I lost few games because of a miss. So, I was thinking to use Wide Lens or the GrassiumZ instead of the Focus Sash (by the way, in your sample, you put Focus Sash on Lilligant and Nihilego)


I feel the same as you about Oranguru, at the begining I tried to use it most of the time and it was not a big succes and lately I had some better results to not use it.
And like you said, it is not enough bulky to take a double target, so most of the time it's a bit hard to introduce my Trick Room.
I discover Trick Room Nihilego, today, with the Athens Regional Championships and Joohwan Kim's team, before I didnt know Nihilego can learn Trick Room ! So, I can try it and even without TR, it can be useful I guess !
Edit: his team is completely different and Nihilego doesnt have TR (I watched the battle just today)


I swapped Garchomp into Assault Vest Mudsdale and I have better results with it. It tank really well and his coverage is really good !

Mudsdale @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Level: 50
Iv : 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature  
- High Horsepower
- Rock Slide 
- Overpower
- Heavy Slam


I already changed Substitute into Rock Slide. Also, I swapped the Miracle Seed into the Kebia Berry and it works pretty well, I baited some Garchomp with that and maybe with a better EV spread I can tank a Sludge Bomb from Nihilego ?


With my last changements, I swapped A-Muk into Mimikyu, as a second TR setter, mainly because I got some troubles with Oranguru but I am not sure about it.

About Celesteela, I dont really like it, this Pokémon is too slow to me, I am better if I play more aggressive.
Also, I played against a similar team but with Oricorio Baile Style and Petal Dance on Lilligant, I really liked this kind of core, what do you think about it ?
The spread was something like :

Oricorio Baile Style @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dancer
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid/Modest Nature  
- Revelation Dance 
- Tail Wind 
- ?
- ?

Lilligant @ GrassiumZ
Ability: Chlorophyl
Level: 50  
EVs: 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 Spe  
Modest Nature  
- Petal Dance 
- ?
- ?
- ?