This Poke is perfect bait for any of the big Intimidators out there, as with the Competitive ability, it'll gain a big +2 with Special Attack, making it a big threat out there against Intimidators such as Landorus-T, Salamence, Mawile, and Arcanine. When given the +2, Scald OHKO's Scarfed 0 HP/0 SpD Adamant/Jolly Lando-T and Icy Wind has a 56.3% chance to OHKO Lando-T and a 43.8% chance to OHKO 0 HP/0 SpD Naïve M-Salamence while a guaranteed 2HKO against Neutral Special Defense M-Sally. Scald threatens physical attackers, as Scald has a 30% chance to burn. Maranga Berry lets it wall against Special Attackers, as once it's hit by a special attack, it gains a +1 in Special Defense, and you can Recover the instant that Special Attacker comes up against you, letting it stay on the field for a long time. Protect lets you scout out the opponent or protecting yourself from a potential Fake Out.
Calcs or analysis on anything else? Also why not ice beam instead of icy wind?plus no one is going to run 0hp/0 SpDef with a minus nature, especially when that pokemon is 4x weak to the most common type.
(Sep 28, 2015, 12:15 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: Calcs or analysis on anything else? Also why not ice beam instead of icy wind?plus no one is going to run 0hp/0 SpDef with a minus nature, especially when that pokemon is 4x weak to the most common type.
Aaron 'Cybertron' Zheng used that exact Salamence placing 4th in US Nationals. The sp.def investment doesn't really make sense if it's going to faint to fairly weak ice beams anyway (particularly at +2 like Milotic would be at). If you expect an ice type attack you redirect, protect or switch out. The point of this Salamence is to cause massive spread damage with Hyper voice, while still getting the OHKO on Max HP Mega gardevoir with Double-edge, so defense investment is just unnecessary.
But back on topic, it would be nice to know why we would use Maranga berry over for example Assault vest or Sitrus berry. Yes obviously the +1 sp.def is nice, but is there a situation where that would prevent you from being 2HKO'd? Starting off with a boost to sp.def at the cost of protect and recover might be preferable in many situations and it would be nice to see you at least making reference to why you feel the opportunity cost of running this set is worth it. And then it would be nice to see the other things you would expect to see in a build, Team options, Threats, What the defence EVs are designed to survive, why you would choose one EV spread/nature over another etc. It would just be nicer for newer players to have the feautures of the build laid out for them.
(Sep 28, 2015, 12:15 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: Calcs or analysis on anything else? Also why not ice beam instead of icy wind?plus no one is going to run 0hp/0 SpDef with a minus nature, especially when that pokemon is 4x weak to the most common type.
Aaron 'Cybertron' Zheng used that exact Salamence placing 4th in US Nationals. The sp.def investment doesn't really make sense if it's going to faint to fairly weak ice beams anyway (particularly at +2 like Milotic would be at). If you expect an ice type attack you redirect, protect or switch out. The point of this Salamence is to cause massive spread damage with Hyper voice, while still getting the OHKO on Max HP Mega gardevoir with Double-edge, so defense investment is just unnecessary.
But back on topic, it would be nice to know why we would use Maranga berry over for example Assault vest or Sitrus berry. Yes obviously the +1 sp.def is nice, but is there a situation where that would prevent you from being 2HKO'd? Starting off with a boost to sp.def at the cost of protect and recover might be preferable in many situations and it would be nice to see you at least making reference to why you feel the opportunity cost of running this set is worth it. And then it would be nice to see the other things you would expect to see in a build, Team options, Threats, What the defence EVs are designed to survive, why you would choose one EV spread/nature over another etc. It would just be nicer for newer players to have the feautures of the build laid out for them.
I dont know what youre talking about lol Living an Ice beam is a necessity, especially for the most common type in the current meta game. Cybertron's Mence was Max Speed Max attack and Jolly. It ran draco because even with a minus nature it still outsped and OKHO'd other Mences. Bulk wins VGC, the longer your pokemon stays alive the better youre going to do. Zheng's biggest mistake was bringing frail mons like Salamence and Blaziken. CM Sylveon looked good on paper but with all the rock slides it wouldnt cut it. AV Swampert just simply wasnt a good choice either. Goth and Ferro were the bulkiest he has and a great pair with the combo of trick room, leech seed, and Shadow tag. This just turned into a Cybertron team report on what went wrong anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
(Sep 28, 2015, 02:53 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: I dont know what youre talking about lol Living an Ice beam is a necessity, especially for the most common type in the current meta game. Cybertron's Mence was Max Speed Max attack and Jolly. It ran draco because even with a minus nature it still outsped and OKHO'd other Mences. Bulk wins VGC, the longer your pokemon stays alive the better youre going to do. Zheng's biggest mistake was bringing frail mons like Salamence and Blaziken. CM Sylveon looked good on paper but with all the rock slides it wouldnt cut it. AV Swampert just simply wasnt a good choice either. Goth and Ferro were the bulkiest he has and a great pair with the combo of trick room, leech seed, and Shadow tag. This just turned into a Cybertron team report on what went wrong anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
And I'm not a fan of your blanket statement of 'Bulk wins VGC'. Obviously keeping your pokemon on the field is important, but whether a pokemon needs to survive certain attacks depends on its role on the team. I don't think in this team Salamence needed to be taking HP ice/Ice beams, he had switch ins being Aegislash and Rotom-W and redirection in Amoonguss (though not ideal, still an option). Sometimes a Pokemon functions better with a fully offensive investment and I think in this particular case that's true.
Sep 28, 2015, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: Sep 28, 2015, 03:32 PM by Podfighterninja123.)
(Sep 28, 2015, 03:22 PM)RebornFX Wrote:
(Sep 28, 2015, 02:53 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: I dont know what youre talking about lol Living an Ice beam is a necessity, especially for the most common type in the current meta game. Cybertron's Mence was Max Speed Max attack and Jolly. It ran draco because even with a minus nature it still outsped and OKHO'd other Mences. Bulk wins VGC, the longer your pokemon stays alive the better youre going to do. Zheng's biggest mistake was bringing frail mons like Salamence and Blaziken. CM Sylveon looked good on paper but with all the rock slides it wouldnt cut it. AV Swampert just simply wasnt a good choice either. Goth and Ferro were the bulkiest he has and a great pair with the combo of trick room, leech seed, and Shadow tag. This just turned into a Cybertron team report on what went wrong anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
And I'm not a fan of your blanket statement of 'Bulk wins VGC'. Obviously keeping your pokemon on the field is important, but whether a pokemon needs to survive certain attacks depends on its role on the team. I don't think in this team Salamence needed to be taking HP ice/Ice beams, he had switch ins being Aegislash and Rotom-W and redirection in Amoonguss (though not ideal, still an option). Sometimes a Pokemon functions better with a fully offensive investment and I think in this particular case that's true.
Slow your roll here bud, Bulk makes VGC, Not wins it, True, But that doesnt mean you go and link a Nationals Video when your talking about a Worlds Team. And Most Salamences DO LIVE A ICE BEAM and WILL LIVE ONE.....
Also Offensive Amoonguss works better than a bulkier one? Never would of knew
Also have you noticed? All teams in VGC so far HAVE SOME TYPE OF BULK, Whetever its Aegislash or Amoonguss, or hell even AV Serperior, all teams have some sort of bulk.
Never Give Up!- Densest Anime Protagonist of the Century
Sep 28, 2015, 03:42 PM (This post was last modified: Sep 28, 2015, 03:43 PM by RebornFX.)
(Sep 28, 2015, 03:29 PM)podfighterninja123 Wrote:
(Sep 28, 2015, 03:22 PM)RebornFX Wrote:
(Sep 28, 2015, 02:53 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: I dont know what youre talking about lol Living an Ice beam is a necessity, especially for the most common type in the current meta game. Cybertron's Mence was Max Speed Max attack and Jolly. It ran draco because even with a minus nature it still outsped and OKHO'd other Mences. Bulk wins VGC, the longer your pokemon stays alive the better youre going to do. Zheng's biggest mistake was bringing frail mons like Salamence and Blaziken. CM Sylveon looked good on paper but with all the rock slides it wouldnt cut it. AV Swampert just simply wasnt a good choice either. Goth and Ferro were the bulkiest he has and a great pair with the combo of trick room, leech seed, and Shadow tag. This just turned into a Cybertron team report on what went wrong anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
And I'm not a fan of your blanket statement of 'Bulk wins VGC'. Obviously keeping your pokemon on the field is important, but whether a pokemon needs to survive certain attacks depends on its role on the team. I don't think in this team Salamence needed to be taking HP ice/Ice beams, he had switch ins being Aegislash and Rotom-W and redirection in Amoonguss (though not ideal, still an option). Sometimes a Pokemon functions better with a fully offensive investment and I think in this particular case that's true.
Slow your roll here bud, Bulk makes VGC, Not wins it, True, But that doesnt mean you go and link a Nationals Video when your talking about a Worlds Team. And Most Salamences DO LIVE A ICE BEAM and WILL LIVE ONE.....
Also Offensive Amoonguss works better than a bulkier one? Never would of knew
I link the team containing a Salamence with the spread that he said that nobody uses, created by a strong VGC player which he found success with in Nationals. He is the only person who brought up his Worlds team, and I only linked the other video to correct him that the nature was Adamant not Jolly. I'm not talking about the Worlds team...
And sure, most might. It doesn't mean that a set which doesn't is bad. If you have to take an ice beam to be able to win against a matchup against a particular pokemon then there is something wrong with the team. That is my point. And I'm not sure what point you are trying to get across with your offensive Amoonguss statement.
Edit: I think you need to read over what I've said and quote me where I say bulk is never necessary.
(Sep 28, 2015, 02:53 PM)MudkipLegend Wrote: I dont know what youre talking about lol Living an Ice beam is a necessity, especially for the most common type in the current meta game. Cybertron's Mence was Max Speed Max attack and Jolly. It ran draco because even with a minus nature it still outsped and OKHO'd other Mences. Bulk wins VGC, the longer your pokemon stays alive the better youre going to do. Zheng's biggest mistake was bringing frail mons like Salamence and Blaziken. CM Sylveon looked good on paper but with all the rock slides it wouldnt cut it. AV Swampert just simply wasnt a good choice either. Goth and Ferro were the bulkiest he has and a great pair with the combo of trick room, leech seed, and Shadow tag. This just turned into a Cybertron team report on what went wrong anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
And I'm not a fan of your blanket statement of 'Bulk wins VGC'. Obviously keeping your pokemon on the field is important, but whether a pokemon needs to survive certain attacks depends on its role on the team. I don't think in this team Salamence needed to be taking HP ice/Ice beams, he had switch ins being Aegislash and Rotom-W and redirection in Amoonguss (though not ideal, still an option). Sometimes a Pokemon functions better with a fully offensive investment and I think in this particular case that's true.
Slow your roll here bud, Bulk makes VGC, Not wins it, True, But that doesnt mean you go and link a Nationals Video when your talking about a Worlds Team. And Most Salamences DO LIVE A ICE BEAM and WILL LIVE ONE.....
Also Offensive Amoonguss works better than a bulkier one? Never would of knew
I link the team containing a Salamence with the spread that he said that nobody uses, created by a strong VGC player which he found success with in Nationals. He is the only person who brought up his Worlds team, and I only linked the other video to correct him that the nature was Adamant not Jolly. I'm not talking about the Worlds team...
And sure, most might. It doesn't mean that a set which doesn't is bad. If you have to take an ice beam to be able to win against a matchup against a particular pokemon then there is something wrong with the team. That is my point. And I'm not sure what point you are trying to get across with your offensive Amoonguss statement.
Edit: I think you need to read over what I've said and quote me where I say bulk is never necessary.
Listen bud, youre killing my Laptop's battery and my brain cells. Im just gonna assume youre new to VGC and let you tell people what you think you know. When you come up into the big leagues youre in for a rude awakening.
Milotic - Tank (Maranga) (2 Options)
anyways my point is this. Mence needs to live ice attacks to beat other mons such as Amoongus, Other Dragons, Mega Garde, and Breloom.
![[Image: aafLqGY.gif:]](http://i.imgur.com/aafLqGY.gif://)
