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+--- Thread: [DISCUSSION] Getting Into Competitive (/Thread-DISCUSSION-Getting-Into-Competitive)
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Getting Into Competitive - Black117 - Dec 10, 2016
So notice yesterday one of our long-serving mods Ganon...- I mean Rogue asked a few questions to our discord chat regarding Competitive Pokemon in general. First off, this has nothing to do regarding specifics in the metagames in either Smogon, VGC, or Battle Spot. Want to ask these following questions to you all if know how everyone feels about getting into Competitive Pokemon. No one has to answer everyone of my questions, maybe select a certain couple from here so I can get a sense how we can improve the Competitive Discussions here for future thread posts as well as interactions. Going to try to keep these Q's simple as possible and will interact with everyone in the thread post. Questions don't have to be essay responses, though the more details, the better idea we'll get.
- How were you introduced or known about Competitive Mons? Was it reviewing online sites like Smogon, NB, Serebii, etc? Was is a certain "Poketuber" or someone / thing IRL who told you about this?
- What's the main reason why you play Competitive Pokemon in general? Basically the endgame goal aside "be the very best". If you don't play competitive, can you explain so. (Here I won't judge too much in everyone's response to this, but will be noted).
- Are there any areas you struggle with from Teambuilding, Theorymoning, Battling, Prediction v Rewards, RNG Management, or anything I didn't listed. Essentially to regards to the Competitive Pokemon itself.
- Kinda similar to Q2. Are they any issues concerning with Competitive not regarding actual battling itself (Skip if you want).
- If there's one thing about competitive Pokemon that will make it "accessible", what its it?
- Final Question: How optimistic you feel about Competitive Pokemon for Generation 7? Yes the poll, though people can just say their feeling about competitive for this gen. Obviously we are only 3 weeks in Gen 7, but like to ask still.
If anyone wants clarification regarding the questions, then I'll answer. Remember this is completely optional, but any comment is appreciated. Note everyone here is open to dialogue, but please be respectful about each others opinions regarding any "view" of Competitive Pokemon. Well that's all and have a great day :D
RE: Getting Into Competitive - Marcusube - Dec 10, 2016
I'm not going to lie, I knew nothing about competitive play until I got curious as to how passerbys kept beating me with "strong" Pokemon so I YouTubed it. I watched a lot of Shofu, @Justin, Verlisify then got to watching more competitive battlers like PokeaimMD, 3MV33, MrJamvad and Thunderblunder777 for Smogon and Aaron Zheng for VGC content. This community in its early stages contributed greatly to my competitive growth thanks to @"MudkipLegend" @AbruptFury @Black117 @trafalgarlaw @MARSxVenom @GiMYz and our very own Justin Flynn
I play competitive Pokemon because it's relaxing. I don't really play hardcore in the way that most people do where they would join major tournaments and such. The most I'd do is join a stream tournament or a draft league but that's about it
Teambuilding is still tricky even for someone like me. Most of the methods I use for teambuilding come under trial and error methods, the use of the main three cores archetypes, knowledge of the metagame and the teambuilding formula for each playstyle. To this day it is still hard to make a team that makes my favourite Pokemon all viable. Prediction is hit or miss because it really depends on the opponent's playstyle. RNG will forever be the death of every Pokemon player so there's that too.
The biggest issue with Competitive Pokemon from my point of view is the lack of sample teams to test out a metagame meaning a huge amount of hours have to be spent theorymoning which is tedious and that since a lot of people who own the games don't play competitive, there isn't much "competition" to play against
Back to my point in paragraph 4, providing sample teams for every metagame is an easy way to break the ice. Perhaps organizing more minor tournaments to attract more people and post more accessible content in the form of videos for people to become more interested. From what I can tell, not a lot of people like to read in comparison to just watching a video about the same thing so its possible to look into having an active YouTube channel for the community as well
Competitive Pokemon for Gen 7 is going to be hella exciting! Honestly I look more towards VGC this year than Smogon due to how the format has a VGC14 feel where the dex is more restricted and the metagame feels more balanced. It's nice to see that VGC17 hasn't been centralized by one team (like CHALK and Big Six did for 15/16) which is a good sign for more diverse teambuilding. Smogon is going to feel the same way and most of these new Pokemon will be ending up in lower tiers in my opinion
RE: Getting Into Competitive - Vinnie - Dec 10, 2016
- I think I've started playing competitively since I found out about Showdown, and still mostly play on Showdown.
- The main reason I play is for fun, like most game I play. Sure, winning is fun, but doing it in a creative way is way more fun in my opinion :D So I don't play serious at all really.
- I'm struggling with everything but that's half the fun. Learning from your mistakes and losses and adjust your team accordingly.
RE: Getting Into Competitive - croissant - Dec 10, 2016
1- I looked up Pokémon battles on youtube and found Smogon youtubers such as shofu, pokeaimMD and Thunderblunder777 and thought it looked fun, so I started hanging out on the Showdown! rooms with other players to learn things and started playing.
2- I think it's just really fun because of the amount of thought you need to put into it. It reminds me of chess, but with more stuff. And also, unlike chess, you don't need skill, only luck.
3- I get hax on the ladder. That's the part where I struggle. Or I try to make cool plays and fail, but that's just me being dumb.
5- Well I think that Showdown makes comp really accessible since you can just type in what you want without having to breed teams (or gen them).
6- I'm hyped honestly. There's so much things to try out, and I find something new everyday. I even started playing a bit of VGC, so I'm also discovering a new metagame and I honestly couldn't be happier, everything seems so much fun, probably because it's new.
RE: Getting Into Competitive - Black117 - Dec 10, 2016
Thank you for your inputs Marc and Vinne. Personally I do think think Competitive Pokemon is all about exposure and how far does anyone want to go at the end of the day. Glad there are many people here in the community who have sparked interest in comp, and even some of the dedicated Poketubers who take the time to showcase their knowledge to thousands of people on their respective platforms. Regarding what I said, getting into Competitive Pokemon is mostly all about getting into it in general. Sample teams are rather limited though available in certain places like Smogon or NB, so we'll what we can do about that once the metagames stabilize.
RE: Getting Into Competitive - yugiohtrav12 - Dec 10, 2016
How i got into competitive pokemon is honestly from finding this community. I was scrolling through twitch one day and found thereplayflynn where people were chatting battling and trading (#TEAMREPLAY). When i got into it more i made new friends in this community who helped me a lot, @"MudkipLegend" , @AbruptFury , @Marcusube , and @Black117 to name a few. It's because of them that i took and interest in pokemon. As i started growing as a player i wanted to learn more so i watched channels on youtube like Aaron zheng and Alex Ogloza. Those channels also helped me progress in my skills as a battler and a team builder.
The reason i got into playing competitively is because it's just straight up fun. There's nothing really else to say. Yes there is the occasional hax that can really put someone down, but in the end knowing that you built a team and win with it is an amazing feeling. The whole pokemon community not just this one is filled with amazing people, who are willing to help you learn more about the game and get better. I play other games such as League of Legends, the player and fan base of that game is super toxic and i can't stand it sometimes. That's why i play pokemon. When i'm feeling down ill grab my DS and play a few games on battle spot, or go on showdown and try out some crazy sets and new mons that haven't really seen much play. The biggest reason i play is because i got to meet new people, made a lot of new friends, there's nothing better than bonding over a game you both have a great time playing.
I'm super excited for this upcoming season. It's been a while since i've been on the forums but most people who remember me know that i like using interesting mons and trying out things that many people wouldn't think of because it isn't "meta." Since this new season there is a lot of new mons that came out in Gen 7 i'm ecstatic about trying out. That gave me the drive to play more in this season because of the fact i like going "off meta" so too speak, which is what i can do because there isn't a set meta yet. I can't wait to see how this season turns out!
RE: Getting Into Competitive - GingerxPug - Dec 10, 2016
1. The way I was introduced to the Competitive side of Pokemon was through 3 different ways: Finding Poketubers like TheKingNappy, discovering Pokemon Showdown and joining a league. Nappy was pretty much one of the first Poketubers I've watched, and when he started Wifi battles/UCL (Rip), he got me really into league battling, hence why I'm in PFA and watch UCL and GBA. Also, he introduced me to some more poketubers like Pokeaim and aDrive, who also kinda helped me with learning the game competitively. As for Showdown, I found it from Poketubers, and when I first got my laptop, that's one of the first things I did, play on random and see what would happen. I learned some strats and the meta in certain tiers, which made me create some more creative teams. Lastly, joining the PFA made me learn so much about playing a game and EV spreads. I've learned the potential of certain mons like Diggersby and Krookodile, as well as my playstyle.
2. The reason I play Pokemon as a competitive game is for a couple of reasons. First off, I just think it's fun, whether you win or lose
3. If we're talking laddering wise, some of my teambuilding can be odd and can sometimes be easily countered by certain cores or synergy. Also, some predictions that are made don't go as planned, and can easily cost a game. As for league formats, Teambuilding isn't as much of a problem because of certain spreads/roles a mon has on my side that can counter the certain amount of mons the opponent has. Risk vs. Reward has also been something that I can slip up with because of certain mons just countering my whole team and predicting whether or not it'll come in to tank a different hit, pretty much doubting myself and thinking hard on what to do (Which can sometimes just cause me a game easily). RNG can be an issue for both subjects, but more severe for League, since a single paralysis can make or break one out of your 11-15 games in the whole season.
5. Honestly, Showdown makes Pokemon very easy for testing out new mons rather than just breeding constantly. You just type in whatever you want into your neat ol' keyboard and test it out. (Pretty much what Elly said)
6. I'm the guy in the "somewhat" category, rather than being insanely hyped about it. Am I really excited to try out some new stuff? Absolutely. Am I really hyped for the really crazy mons (Xurkitree, Pheromosa, Toxapex, other insane UBs)? Not really, since I don't really know which ones would go up to Ubers and which ones will become the meta of OU. I know I shouldn't be worrying about it too much, but after all, this is all up to Smogon to decide, which is quite some way to go when Pokebank opens up. Also concerned for them in league play, since they'll have lots of potential for doing greater than other mons (MVPs, Sweepers, etc.).
RE: Getting Into Competitive - hyunwoo0124 - Dec 10, 2016
- No one actually introduced me. I started playing Pokemon since Ruby version. After being introduced to the world of pokemon simply through curiosity, I only played for the sake of completing the pokedex. I finished the dex through trading with others.(Going to EB games, looking for people to trade with on the weekends...lol) I played up until the 4th Gen. and quickly became tired of the seiries. Then, I made a return in the 6th gen, going full competetive mode due to the introduction of PSS, making online battling easier.
- It is fun. Every game I play, let it be an RPG, or a FPS, it's all about competition. Without competition, I feel most games grow dull; rather quickly. What is the point of shiny hunting/ breeding 5IVs, if you can't show it off to others? I believe online competition and rivalry keeps a game's lifespan long and enjoyable.
- I usually build a simple team, and play to lose. After losing, I make tweaks to cover the weakness that were exposed through those said losses. Sometimes I get really really mad when RNGesus is against me.(Multiple freeze hax from a couple of ice beams...etc...) It is also sometimes very frustrating to build my perfect team, due to the lack of previous generation games(I sold them all), and PkHex. It feels unfair being at a disadvantage because I didn't hack my game to gain certain mons with certain eggmoves, and/or tutor moves. And so, that made me want to move over from Smogon to VGC...
- I believe it is the unification of game rules. This is probably impossible. But the lack of game-rules, Being community made ones, (Especially Smogon) makes it impossible to gain competetive knowledge without going online to google it. It was ridiculous when I spent hours breeding and training my perfect Blaziken(My first bred comp mon), only to be yelled at by someone that it is banned, and that I cheated. That almost threw me off competetive as a whole as it really triggered me. I think the accessibillity of information about the different competetive metas, and modes is the most important part. It is also a complete pain having to breed every generation a fresh batch of comp mons. It was fun breeding at first, but it starts to become a chore...
- I really love the meta-game right now. I used to only play smogon due to the lack of sleep-clause in VGC. But due to the popularity of the Tapus, spore-users and hax-depending users are all blocked out lol. Making it so much more enjoyable and allows many different kinds of gameplay and style. Also, blocking out previous gen mons really make the game fair for both genners, and breeders, as I don't have to worry about tutor moves from previous generations and such. After I get more used to VGC I think it will be goodbye smogon for me. lolol. VGC is so much more interesting than I anticipated, and I am DEFINITELY enjoying it 100%.
RE: Getting Into Competitive - Chawizawd - Dec 11, 2016
Thanks @Rogue and @Black117 for reaching out to the community. I am definitely not good at battling but I want to get better. I'm not looking for a title belt (why doesn't Pokemon have a title belt?) but I am definitely interested to grow and learn in the competitive scene.
1. I don't really know how I found out about competitive mons, I think I was watching some vids of people playing Pokken (totally off topic but it looks fun tbh) and when I searched a little bit into it I found that the main series games are where the larger comptetitive crowd is at. That was when I picked up a 3ds for the first time, I rejoined the Pokemon scene during the last stretch of Gen 6 this year. Aside from that, I haven't actually played since RBY/GSC, so I went into it totally blind.
2. The reason I play competitive Pokemon? Well I really don't so much. I get on Battle Spot whenever, but I'm not on showdown. Summer '16 I hovered in the 1300-1400 range on Battle Spot, which I think means I'm generally at, or below, average. I watched a few Poke-Streamers for a little while before hopping onto Battle Spot in an attempt to learn from them but I never planned to be the very best. Just want to be good enough to have some fun.
3. I get team building alright I suppose. By that I mean, I can build a team based on type advantage/disadvantage to some extent, I can make sure I have coverage on all my mon's moves. Maybe that's not the way to go about it, maybe I need more speed control or weather shenanigans. Not sure what to do with that stuff to be honest. RNG management is an unknown to me, I can see why the calcs all make sense but I'm not comfortable with the numbers to really figure it out while team building. In battle I just use strong moves for neutral damage or better, and hope for the best. That's something I could definitely improve on.
4. I think I answered this? idk.
5.Not sure what to do to make competitive accessible to me. I think if I get onto Showdown it'll be a step in the right direction.
6. I've seen some of the European swiss matches that started up this week. I'm hopeful in the fact that literally everybody is still learning the new metagame. That means I'm nearly on a level playing field, since not everything has been tested out yet. Of course I'm still very much a newbie to competitive Pokemon so I have a long way to go before I'll be proficient at it.
I'm tagging @"Elly" because you're another competitive mod and you can't stop me from tagging you.
RE: Getting Into Competitive - Neffi - Dec 11, 2016
Q4: Besides battling, the main thing is to get the Pokémon ready with the right movesets, IVs, EVs, Natures etc. This is the reason why I prefer to use Pokémon Showdown, it's easier, quicker to get to the battling and if something is wrong with the team you can simply just tweak it. This is much harder to do in the game which leads into my response for Q5. To make competitive battling easier to access I think it needs to be much easier to create the perfect pokémon. With the addition of Hyper training, thiis has become considerably easier however getting your pokémon to level 100 stilll takes a long time and bottle caps are very rare. Super training also no longer exists so EVing pokémon is a little bit harder. I wish it was easier to get good pokémon in game; I would love to play pokémon competitively in game but it's just a bit too difficult for me, or maybe I'm just lazy. Either way, Showdown will have to do for me for now.