[RATE MY TEAM] Building my first team!

[ozzyk92]

Hi everyone, so I'm brand new to the competitive Pokemon environment! I have read all the material for beginners on this site and many others and tried to learn as much as I could before posting for help. It was a real struggle not to just post "build me a team pl0x" straight away because getting started for the first time is sooooo confusing  

I spent quite a while chopping and changing teams as really I had no idea what made a good team synergize well even after reading the various guides, as I simply didn't have first hand experience of them in game. I quickly realised I needed to get something made that was reasonable and followed a theme I liked the sound of, and then get playing with it.

I decided to build my team around Ampharos as he as been one of my favorite Pokemon for a while now. After some light reading about him I understood that in order to have any real fighting chance a team around him would have to employ the trick room strategy. I then built a team around it to the best of my ability    and proceeded onto Pokemon Showdown. So for a total newb I would actually say I did alright as I think I won roughly as many as I lost over around 15-20 games!

Before posting this I read the rules about threads with the RMT prefix and I will try to be as thorough and detailed as possible but please understand that I quite literally chose a lot of my Pokemon based purely of persona affection and my EV spreads are pulled from Smogon as a majority!

Without further a do, here is my beautiful monstrosity:

The core of my team is my first 3 Pokemon, Ampharos, Jellicent and Sylveon and while I understand it might not be the strongest if possible I would really like to keep these three pokemon as the core of my team! As for the rest, anything goes!


Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
0 Speed IVs
Quiet
-Thunderbolt
-Dragon Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Protect

My absolute favorite Pokemon, I love him and so far he seems pretty strong. Although he is agonizingly slow, once trick room is up he becomes pretty dangerous. I know his move coverage isn't the greatest but with thunderbolt and dragon pulse and a base SpA of 165 he has two STAB's that are at least neutral effectiveness against the majority of Pokemon. No idea with the EV spread, he feels pretty bulky though and hits like a truck so that's good. Focus blast @ 70% accuracy isn't ideal but when it hits it does a stellar job in getting rid of Mega Kang/Tyranitar etc.


Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpA / 12 SpD
0 Speed IVs
Quiet
-Trick Room
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Recover

Again another Pokemon I just love using! Not sure whether the 0 Speed IVs is right or not I just kinda assumed I always want him to be the slowest for while trick room was up. He takes shots really well and recover is great for the turn after trick room is up as I usually move first and can top my HP up nicely! His SpA is nothing to sniff at either and his STAB scald hits nicely along with Ice beam being great for the various Dragon types/thunderus.... etc. As for Sitrus and EVs, they were taken from smogon.


Sylveon @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 68 Def / 252 SpA
Modest
-Hyper Voice
-Shadow Ball
-Psyschock
-Protect

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battle...-255409329 - I'm sure this is cringe worthily bad to you guys but I did enjoy Sylveon just shreking his team haha! (also I think me Focus Blasting into Dragonite instead of Dragon Pulse wasn't me not understanding weaknesses but I was trying to be clever and predict a switch or something..lol) Anyway I literally couldn't build a team without her as I have always loved playing with the various eveelutions and she has been my favorite since her release. As for Pixie Plate I chose that because I didn't like the idea of choice specs and being choiced into only 1 move but I guess really I don't often use any others other than hyper voice anyway, idk.


Clawitzer @ Life Orb
Ability: Mega Launcher
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / SpD 4
Modest
-Water Pulse
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Protect

So I was looking for a sweeper for this team and I came across Clawitzer I think from looking at the Pokemon global link page for being used in conjunction with ampharos. After looking him up a bit I realized he looked with really strong with trick room and his ability was pretty cool too, giving him good coverage with a lot of power behind the attacks. Life Orb seemed to go well with him and that's about all there was too him! Over time though I haven't been taking him in battles much as he can't take Sylveons spot usually and I need the other 3 for ampharos/jellicent my fake out/redirect user for stetting the trick room up. Not sure if this was just an eventuality as he isn't suited to the team or whether I need to look at how I'm approaching team selection based on my opponents team.


Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant
-Fake Out
-Knock Off
-Icicle Crash
-Low Kick

So after playing a few games with a slightly different team I quickly realized I needed a fake out/misdirect user in order to actually get trick room setup reliably. I scrolled down a list of Fake Out users and I liked the look of weavile + his move-set looked solid so in he went. I also liked his speed as this meant even when trick room wasn't up I had some reasonable offensive pressure. They way I have been using him is, to lead with him and Jellicent and get trick room setup. Then switch him out and try and faint opponents team. If trick room is going to run out and Jellicent is still in play, I will try and switch back into Weavile in preparation to Fake Out and try and get another trick room off If possible! It's also nice to have some offensive pressure against SpD walls.


Togekiss @ Lum Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 4 SpA / 28 SpD / 60 Spe
Bold
-Follow Me
-Air Slash
-Tailwind
-Protect

The idea with Togekiss was to have a tailwind user in order to be able to survive out of trick room on occasion. However tbh he is my least used Pokemon and when i do take him I regret it as I never have success. I'm pretty sure he doesn't synergise but its hard to know if that's the case or I just don't use/build him properly!


Well if you've read through that I'm sure I've bored you half to death but any help and advice would be greatly appreciated as I would like to start breeding and competing in battle spot  :D If I've left anything out or you need more information just ask and I will try my best to provide.

Thanks again, ozzyk92

[Delta]

This team. It is really good. I love Ampharos and Jellicent, and together, they make an awesome Trick Room Team. I can't help too much with EV's because they are completely personal preference, and experimentation would work well with them. Now for in depth coverage:

Ampharos:
Honestly, this is nearly the Ampharos I'd run. I would replace Focus Blast with Charge Beam, but Focus Blast is better, so keep it.

Jellicent:
I would like to know why you used the EV's you used. I wouldn't put as many EV's into SpA, but you probably have a reason. The moveset looks good. Wouldn't change a thing.

Sylveon:
I would again love to know why you used the EV's. Otherwise, the moveset looks really good. I understand that the item can be hard, but keep the Pixie Plate, because you never want to be walled by Wide Guard.

Clawitzer:
So far your team is looking good, but here is the first thing I would revise. I have never used Clawitzer, but I have also never found it intimidating. Heatran could work pretty well in this situation. You do need a Fire type, or at least a Steel type. Aegislash would also fit in. Whatever set you use for these pokemon is up to you.

Togekiss:
Yes, get rid of this pokemon. It does nothing for your team, and is completely out of place. Like, a Pachirisu in worl- WAIT! You mean to tell me that Pachirisu won worlds? Well then. Togekiss does about as much for your team as Magikarp. HOWEVER! A redirect pokemon is very good. So, lets look at a redirect pokemon that is, slow, bulky, and has outside utility. Lets see, Pachirisu? No. Furret? No. Togekiss/Togetic? No. Clefairy/Clefable? Maybe. Amoongus? ALL OF THE YES! Not only is it bulky, but it is super slow, and has Spore, which is a massive pain for your opponents to deal with. I mean, wouldn't you like to have a pokemon using a 100 accuracy move going first, and that pokemon also has good bulk? No? THEN GET THE **** OUT OF HERE!

Weavile:
As with most of your team, not much work needs to be done here. I like it. You could replace Focus Sash with Life Orb, assuming you replace Clawitzer, but it isn't needed.

Overall, your team is very good. For the bulky pokemon, I would recommend playing around in the Pokemon Showdown damage calculator to see the EV's, and play lots with this team. You will learn it's ins and outs, and you will become very good at pokemon. This is, of course, just my 2 cents. However, I am going to charge you a nickle, because my hand hurts a bit from writing this.

[DanielJames]

It seems like you spent a lot of time researching before putting together your team! I'll make a few suggestions for what's it worth.

First, I'd replace Clawitzer with another Pokémon. You already have one Water-type Pokémon in Jellicent so Clawitzer isn't adding anything when it comes to move coverage besides Dark Pulse. Plus, it's makes it easier for your opponent's Electric- and Grass-type Pokémon. Amoongus would be a solid choice seeing as how it's Rage Powder can help Jellicent successfully get off Trick Room while also providing Grass and Poison coverage on your team.

I'm not a huge fan of Weavile when it comes to Trick Room teams, namely because Weavile is known for it's high speed stat. I understand wanting a Fake Out user, but outside of that it's not going to be doing much work once Trick Room is up. I'd suggest Conkeldurr. Throw an Assault Vest on it, give it Mach Punch, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, and Knock Off and he will provide plently of offensive pressure.

I like Togekiss, but again, using it for Tailwind support in a Trick Room team is counterproductive. Plus, even if you don't get Trick Room up and you use Tailwind, the majority of your Pokémon are so slow to begin with that it's not going to help them outspeed much. I'd recomment another Trick Room user like Gothitelle or Reuniclus. If Jellicent goes down, it's nice to have another Trick Room user. Since your team relies on it so heavily, I'd say that it's a necessity to have two Trick Room users.

Hopefully some of my suggestions help! Glad to see a new VGC battler!

[ozzyk92]

Thanks for the replies! So after reading both of your responses I've decided to change the Clawitzer and Togekiss spots:


Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Def / 228 SpD
Adamant
-Drain Punch
-Mach Punch
-Knock Off
-Ice Punch

I really liked the sound of Conkeldurr as he adds some offensive pressure in the form of physical attacks which I didn't have a great amount of before. I went with the moveset suggest and after a few games have found it pretty successful although I might consider swapping Ice Punch for Poison Jab as currently I feel I have very little to counter fairy types. My only concern would be that from what I've played so far with him he does seem relatively easy to KO but that could just be me bringing him when I shouldn't and leaving him exposed etc. I will try to get some replays of games as well now so you can see what I'm doing in a match situation!


Amoongus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed
-Rage Powder
-Spore
-Sludge Bomb
-Protect

Already I love this Pokemon so thanks to both of you for suggesting it! Its just so useful in a ton of situations and the sludge bomb for fairy types has been invaluable at times in my first few matches. I feel with Amoongus and Weavile I have two great options to lead with Jellicent and get Trick Room set up. So far in fact I don't think there's been a game where I haven't managed to get Trick Room up initially, so thats a good sign (although I realise I'm playing at a low elo )

With Weavile, I understand your point DanielJames, but I have found at times his speed to be helpful as so far in a lot of my games I end up with Trick Room running out and in that situation Weavile can be invaluable. I can switch him back in for the fake out or if he's already in I have the speed to move first and maybe get a faint! I also lie his move set as Knock Off gets rid of Aegislash and Icicle Crash is a powerful STAB for Dragons etc.

It's great to get you're help and already I'm learning a ton so thanks again!

[ozzyk92]

So just thought I'd get some replays real quick to give you guys an idea of what I'm playing like!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battle...-255629673

Completely forgot about the priority brave Bird because of Gale wings, plan was to faint Talonflame and spore the Tyranitar but as you can see that didn't work out, managed to pull the win back though with my new Conkeldurr and Jellicent!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battle...-255631332

Another comeback win! So I’m pretty sure I made a mistake letting Amoongus faint at the beginning as I was obviously never going to OHKO Togekiss so not sure why I went with that. I felt Jellicent and Mega Amp proved their strength in this game with Jellicent surviving the Solar Beam and Ampharos taking the Earthquake on the chin! I’m not sure really how well I played at the end or whether I just got lucky but I felt like my target choice was good and I managed to pick up the win so thats a plus!

[Marcusube]

Alright, I have taken an in depth analysis with this team. Here are some flaws I found while using it:

Huge Fairy Weakness
Lacks offensive pressure
Conkeldurr lacks the adequate movepool
Team needs Wide Guard
Psyshock never helped Sylveon
The EV spread on Jellicent did achieve much
Ice Beam redundant on Jellicent
Dragon Pulse not good on Ampharos
Weavile missed out on KOs too often and cannot deal with 50-50s
Jellicent didn't need Recover but Protect is critical in avoiding mons who stop it from setting up TR

These are all note scraps that I made so forgive me if they don't make any sense based on sentence structure.

With these flaws, I have attempted to fix some of the errors with this team from my point of view.

 

Let's discuss the old faces first

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 204 SpA / 228 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Protect
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]/Power Gem
- Focus Blast

During theory and making the EV spread, I realized that Ampharos pretty much covers what it needs to with 204 SpAtk EVs. Don't believe me?

204+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 176-208 (97.2 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 180-212 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

The comparison here is because no matter how much you invest, it is still a roll

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 172-204 (103.6 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 20 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 176-210 (95.1 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

In testing, I realized that Raichu gave this Pokemon the most problems. HP Ground is to remove it so you can then proceed to Thunderbolt spam. Power Gem is an option if you want to straight up take out Zard but I think HP Ground covers more. It hits Heatran, Terrakion and Excadrill for a good chunk without having to risk Focus Blast missing. Dragon Pulse is redundant seeing as how you have Sylveon to nuke Dragons and Thunderbolt is a stable enough STAB so there is no need to rely on Dragon Pulse.

The EV spread survives Earthquake from scarf Jolly Mamoswine and the rest of EVs were dumped into SpDef to take hits such as Ice Beam and Earth Power relatively better.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 180 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

In all of my practicing, I never once needed to use Ice Beam with Jellicent. Reason being, if a Dragon or mon that was weak to Ice Beam was in, they easily had switch-ins to take the Ice Beam then destroy Jellicent the following turn. I opt for Will-o-Wisp simply because after getting TR up, you can stop fast physical sweepers like Salamence, Excadrill, Bisharp, Lopunny, Landorus-T etc before they attack. Sure Scald is an option but if you really need that burn, relying on 30% chances isn't getting you anywhere. Also Will-o-Wisp + Protect is good for burn stall. Recover had no use to be honest. A move from an opponent pulls Jellicent to depths where even after it recovered, using the move again would secure the kill. Leftovers + Protect for HP recovery seemed better especially since now you have a way to avoid getting knocked out before you get up Trick Room.

Sylveon @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 68 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Psyshock doesn't kill Amoonguss or Conkeldurr. It doesn't faint anything you would think it would. It's a bad filler move on this set. Calm Mind is fun seeing as how with redirection, you can increase your defenses and offenses then nuke the field with Hyper Voice spam. Shadow Ball is still a necessity in dealing with Aegislash, Gengar, Gardevoir and Pokemon that resist Hyper Voice.

Amoonguss @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect
- Sludge Bomb

SpDef Amoonguss has been way more clutch than the physically defensive variant. It takes Ice Beams, Psychics, Heat Waves and neutral special attacks very nicely. In my opinion, it is superior than the physically defensive variant because it doesn't get immediately one shot by Psychic from Gardevoir.

252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 152-182 (68.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This means you can spore it back then Sludge Bomb repeatedly for the faint. Just note that if the opponent has Psyshock, its a damage roll that has a 50% chance of OHKOing (approximately).

Now for the newcomers.

Hariyama @ Expert Belt / Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat / Guts
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 164 Atk / 20 Def / 252 SpD / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off

In testing, Conkeldurr's type coverage was really abysmal. It never had an answer for the top 4 megas in the meta game and was easy to play around. I did try to shake things up by running a Wide Guard set, but the same problem still remained. Hariyama put in a lot of work on this team. First of all, Thick Fat made it so that Zard cant't wipe you out of existence with Overheat which is what they like to use to swat Wide Guarders. Hariyama has Close Combat to OHKO Kang and Heatran, something which Conkeldurr (if it's Guts AV) can't do. Rock Slide is for coverage against Zard and anything else that takes a super effective hit from it and Knock Off is for an option to hit Aegislash, Gengar and such. The EV spread combined with expert belt allows you to OHKO Kang, max speed Timid Zard and Aegislash-Blade, all of which threaten this team. 68 EVs outspeeds Scrafty so you can OHKO it as well without giving it a chance to do damage to you. The rest of EVs were distributed into SpDef and the remainder into defense and HP. HP investments into Hariyama don't change damage rolls by that much since its HP stat kicks off at 219 which is already a large number. You can opt for Guts w/ Expert Belt as well. In testing, even though people know that Hariyama has Guts, they still try to status it. I like Thick Fat for it calls the bluff and the Fire/Ice resistances are a more significant asset than Guts is.

Chandelure @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 68 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball/Energy Ball

The EV spread here hasn't been finalized yet. Chandelure is, in my opinion, a very strong Trick Room setter. Not only does it avoid Fake Out but it has Flash Fire to eat up Zard and Heatran's Heat Wave spam and switch into predicted Will-o-Wisp and other fire attacks. The attacks here are pretty much standard so no need to explain each. Energy Ball is still debated over Shadow Ball because your team lacks options for Rotom-W and Gastrodon, who give this team a rough time.

---

Of course, I'm not going to give you all these suggestions without demonstration. Here are some battle videos of the testing.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battle...-255705361
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battle...-255703989

---

Overall, Ampharos has proven to have potential in this meta but it is hard to carry to certain matchups since people generally have mons that deal with it easily.

Another thing to note is that you may want to invest into a mon with Taunt and have an alternate mode of speed control. There have been matches where TR couldn't be set up because the opponent had mons that took advantage of it, primarily Amoonguss and Ferrothorn.

[Delta]

You do have a great team here. I would replace Wide Guard with Fake Out on Hariyama. Fake Out can be such an important move to use, especially on a Trick Room team, where setting up Trick Room is very beneficial. Other than that, you just need to play this team more and learn its ins and outs. Master the Amoongus, and it will reward you greatly.

[ozzyk92]

@Marcusube

Wow man, I really appreciate the amount of time you've obviously put into that!

So I've changed the team up and had a chance to play a few games with it today. Unfortunately I haven't done that well. I find after watching your replays that you played very different to me as up until now I have been just misdirect/fake out + trick rooming on the first turn every time. After watching you I saw the value to be had in using that expectation to sometimes attack first instead etc. I think my biggest thing right now is I struggle to predict well which mons the opponent is going to bring and I often forget what moves/threats the opponents Pokemon have when making my decisions during the battle.

Any further insight into how I should approach matches in general would be great and I will make an effort to get a few more replays with the new team for analysis if you or anyone has time to watch them!

Thanks again for all the help you given me!

@Delta

I must admit from the games I've played so far I haven't used wide guard all that much but tbh that could just be because I'm so new to all this and I'm not playing effectively haha. I think I will have to follow your advice and play more for sure, been enjoying this new element to Pokemon a lot! Looking forward to getting the team bred now so I can play for real rather than just on showdown but don't want to start until I know for sure my team and movesets!

[Marcusube]

(Aug 4, 2015, 10:12 AM)ozzyk92 Wrote: @Marcusube

Wow man, I really appreciate the amount of time you've obviously put into that!

So I've changed the team up and had a chance to play a few games with it today. Unfortunately I haven't done that well. I find after watching your replays that you played very different to me as up until now I have been just misdirect/fake out + trick rooming on the first turn every time. After watching you I saw the value to be had in using that expectation to sometimes attack first instead etc. I think my biggest thing right now is I struggle to predict well which mons the opponent is going to bring and I often forget what moves/threats the opponents Pokemon have when making my decisions during the battle.

Any further insight into how I should approach matches in general would be great and I will make an effort to get a few more replays with the new team for analysis if you or anyone has time to watch them!

Thanks again for all the help you given me!

Hey man, don't mention it! Glad to help! :D

[Chimchared7]

marc alec is the founder of team foreplay