#572 Minccino

Ryu Kurai · Nov 25, 2015, 05:48 PM

Hi there! Lateley, after some time leaving pokemon in a second place, playing other games & stuff, been playing some double rated battles, and despite doing better than i expected, i found myself frustrated and demotivated to keep it up, as i don't see hoew i can improve my team to get rid of major threads, without starting over my loved team.

So far, the core of my nightmares, and frustration, is M - Kangaskhan & Fake out users. Specially, those teams who also carry bulky pokemons able to redirect attacks to themselves with rage powder, and Follow me (im looking at you, ¬¬ Amoonguss and Glefairy). For obvious reasons, i can't one shot those, and the evil kang, just eats my team after a power up punch. And when i try to use multi target attacks, fake out comes to the scene.

The team in question, is the following:

Gallade-Mega
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 12 HP / 80 Atk / 168 Def / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psycho Cut
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Protect

1 80 Atk Gallade Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 256-304 (80.2 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ice Punch

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Gallade: 202-238 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 8 HP / 168 Def Gallade: 156-184 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-----------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 422-498 (119.8 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 8 HP / 168 Def Gallade: 216-253 (77.4 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
------------------------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gengar: 296-350 (113.4 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 284-336 (101.7 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 402-474 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 151-178 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 436-520 (309.2 - 368.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 76-91 (52.4 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Amoonguss: 138-164 (62.4 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 33-40 (22.9 - 27.7%) -- 72.5% chance to 4HKO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Rotom-W: 100-118 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

60 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 61-73 (42.3 - 50.6%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO

My mega, and the one i spend the time with calcs. What i wanted with that set, was using that 165 attack base damage from Mega-Gallade, to 1HKO major threads as kangaskan-Mega, Landorus - T, Mega-Gengar and Garchomp thanks to the coverage with Close comb at, Psyco - Cut. Also has the strenght to OHKO Landorus without defensive investment. Wide guard shut down Hyper voice, rock slide, and eartquakes. wich come inn handy.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Protect

My frail but fast greninja, coming in to out-speed and OHKO everything that is weak to he's attacks. Added gunk shot for coverage, against those damned fairy type pokemon. Pranksters with thunder wave shut him down, and that's the end of the frog. Also, having attacks with low chance of hitting the opponent, lost me a lot of battles.

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- knock off
- Protect

My counter / check to intimidate users. Also, helpfull to get rid of Cresselia, before trick room come in, and Sylveons with lower defence investments. Helps to finish weakened pokes with sucker punch, and kill ghosts like no-one-else.

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Dragon Claw

Pure power, choice scarfed to outspeed anything in the field, and get rid of birds, and fire mons, got me a couple of doubles with my loved Zapdos. But any ice attack, no matter how weak it is, send him to the grave.

Zapdos @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 68 SpA / 20 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Tanks almost everything like a beast, and also has enought power to 2HKO must bulky water pokemons, as far as they do not recover with berries right after. Heat waves helpos a lot to get rid of Steel type pokemons, and give me an upper hand, when leading with him and Garchomp against charizard Y, making use of the sun boost. Hidden power ice is a must, to take away those rock slider's, and roost heals, and give me one turn of less damage against the rocks.

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow ball
- Hidden Power Fire
- Psyshock

I don't know what to say, pretty much the only pokemon on my team that i only have becouse of he's pure power. Gives me a huge advantage against dragons, and one of the pokemons i lead whenever i see Kangaskhan, with a fake out bait, so at least i get a good chunk of he's live. One double Edge send him to the grave, giving me a bad time when they do not fall in the bait, and just destroy the dogge. I should take a look at he's EV spread, making him more tanky, but still able to do some damage, as i feel it's very weak, and usually dies before even doing anything.

Empoleon (F) @ Chople Berry
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 220 HP / 108 Def / 176 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
– Scald
– Ice Beam
– Flash cannon
– Protect

Today, after my frustration session, i thought that maybe a bulkier water type, would be a better choice for my team, instead of greninja, and i found that set, that i liked, and modified to use it today. The problem is that it's too slow, and mega-khan leading with Amoongus / Clefairy, i can't even get a scald on him, and low kick / power up punch melt him in the second turn, after the berry being used, and Kang being at + 2. And sometimes the tank still alive, preventing me from damaging he's mega.

So far, the team does very well in a lot of situations, and i love it. Also, every match makes me better, and aware of the enemy strategy, so i found ways around some pokes that used to beat me easley. But i found Kang + a tank with rage powser, follow me / Fake out / Both at the same time, a wall i can't go trought.

I'm in ypur hand guys, any ideas for a more successfull build? I might not be the best yet, but im trying hard to acomplish my milestones, and the metagame is actually making me really sad, expected it to be different after a year, but nothing has been done, and i don't really wan't to join it.

Thanks in advance for your time and atemption! And sorry for bad englando.

Chocolatte_Banane_Pokemon · Nov 25, 2015, 08:33 PM

Maybe you should replace Greninja. He hits very hard, but he is made of cristal. Maybe you should bring Aegislash and join him with M-Gallade

Marcusube · Nov 26, 2015, 04:27 AM

Hey there, Ryu. First of all, thanks for adhering to the posting rules. Not a lot of people follow them and they run into problems getting their teams rated.

Firstly, I want to show you a Mega-Gallade team I've been using on Battle Spot and the PS VGC 2015 ladder.

Now, I'm not saying you have to copy it but I feel it would help bring across my suggestions.

Firstly, I would suggest going all out 252/252 with Gallade's EV spread. The mere fact that Intimidate is so common in this metagame, all these calcs you do with Gallade may come off short and cost you some games. Imagine Close Combating into a Kangaskhan, only to find it not KOing then Kangaskhan retaliates with Return/Double Edge which OHKOs you at -1 Defense.

I honestly recommend running Life Orb Bisharp because unlike the sashed variant, Sucker Punch is a guaranteed OHKO on Landorus-T at +1 attack. Also, the damage output from LO Bisharp is significantly higher

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 216 HP / 60 Def Cresselia: 187-221 (84.2 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 164-195 (98.2 - 116.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Now, I want you to observe why I used Gyarados as my bulky water type. Unlike Milotic, Gyarados has access to a more permanent form of speed control, that being Thunder Wave. It also has access to Taunt to stop the constant spam of Follow Me/Rage Powder or Spore. Intimidate keeps Gallade and the rest of the team around longer and reduces the damage from physical attackers to a great extent and Waterfall is obviously for STAB but also to snipe those Ground types (except Gastrodon) who are immune to Thunder Wave. Gyarados possess these unique traits that other bulky water types such as Gastrodon, Rotom-W, Empoleon, Suicune and Swampert don't have.

So yeah, try Gyarados as your bulky water type.

I, for one, hate to have to result to legendary Pokemon, however, I've been able to appreciate this core I built to support the first three mons.

Now, you said you have issues as it relates to Follow Me/Rage Powder uses. Well, did you know that Grass types actually ignore Rage Powder? If Taunting the opponent isn't effective enough, you can always try to use a Grass type to cripple Kangaskhan. Here you see I chose Virizion. I did this because it has Close Combat which OHKOs Kang, making redirection plus Kang less of an issue.

Safety Goggles also stops Rage Powder as well so maybe you can consider running that on one of your mons.

Now that I've given you an idea of how to work around redirection, maybe you could try to implement something like this.

The team you have here now isn't bad at all and can still function good in this format. Just use the first six Pokemon you listed (not Empoleon).

I'd say, change Gallade's EV spread to max attack and max speed with a Jolly Nature, replace Focus Sash with Life Orb on Bisharp to net more KOs, run Expert Belt on Greninja with moves Ice Beam, HP Ground, Low Kick/Grass Knot and Protect.

Note: - HP Ground changes Greninja to a Ground type which allows it to be immune to Electric attacks. Also Hydro Pump may be a strong move but what is it really hitting for much damage? Gunk Shot is a waste here. You have enough mons to easily check Fairies and Gunk Shot as a move itself is very bad, mainly because of accuracy and it being resisted by 4 common types in the meta.

252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Greninja Helping Hand Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 236 HP / 12 SpD Milotic: 216-254 (108 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Protean Greninja Helping Hand Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Suicune: 223-266 (107.7 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, Grass Knot does a number on bulky Water types with Helping Hand support. Guess who learns Helping Hand? That's right, Sylveon does.

Pixie Plate Sylveon with Hyper Voice, Shadow Ball, Helping Hand and Protect is the way to go! Also note that Helping Hand allows you to pick up KOs on bulky Kangaskhan, Landorus-T, almost Mega Metagross, among other Pokemon.

Choice Scarf Garchomp may not be the best choice seeing as how its damage input isn't all that great in comparison to the LO variant and how locking yourself into one move can backfire (especially Earthquake). I agree with Red here. Aegislash would be a good option for this team. Aegislash resists everything Gallade is weak to (other than Ghost), everything Sylveon is weak to and almost everything Bisharp is weak to. Of course you want to run it defensively with Substitute/Flash Cannon, King's Shield, Wide Guard/Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball. I put Flash Cannon as an alternative just in case you find yourself needing it more than Substitute or Wide Guard.

Lastly, Rotom-H does Zapdos' job a bit better in this scenario. Rotom resists Fire which rarely of the mons on your current team does, is immune to Ground attacks, immune to paralysis AND burns, possess two very useful STABs, more resistances, you name it! What I like about Rotom-H is its stronger offensive impact than Zapdos on the field. It also wipes out Amoonguss, bulky Water types and pokemon weak to Ice relatively easy with this set.

Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 72 SpA / 108 SpD / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

EVs survive Suicune's Scald at 100 SpA EVs with a quarter HP remaining, outspeed Jolly max speed Breloom by one point and the rest of EVs were dumped into Special Attack. Guaranteed OHKOs on Aegislash, Metagross, Salamence, Landorus-T, Breloom, Amoonguss, almost Kang, etc.

I hope this helps Smile

Ryu Kurai · Nov 26, 2015, 11:48 AM

Thank you very much, for all the great advice you given me, i have read it it few times, and i feel i can make some safe changes now. Ill update thr message later, with conclusions on the team, and wich changes im planing to do, as i have almost no time now.

Again, thanks for taking your time to help me, i trully apreciate it.

Marcusube · Nov 26, 2015, 02:45 PM

No prob, Ryu. Glad I could be of assistance and I'm looking forward to your conclusion as well :D

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