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How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Kidakairis - Dec 6, 2016
How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding
Some people don’t like using or don’t have access to a 6 IV Ditto. There is luckily a workaround for this issue (for the most part) however and it is known as Egg Group Breeding. What exactly is Egg Group Breeding you may ask it is when you breed two Pokemon with at least one common egg group in common. This differs from the easy breed any Pokemon with a Ditto formula that most are used too. This method of breeding however has it’s faults, Pokemon that don’t have genders or all male exclusive Pokemon cannot be breed with this method (with rare exceptions such as Nidoran Female being able to breed Nidoran Male), but besides that this is the absolute best way to breed 5 IV Pokemon without the use of 5 IV or 6 IV Ditto. Though it may take sometime to build a full box of egg group parents if you are someone like who like to breed 5 IV Pokemon it is well worth the time and effort. If I haven’t lost you yet let’s move into what you need.
Requirements:
1. Destiny Knot - Through Pick Up Ability or Bought with 48 BP in the Battle Royal Dome
2. Power Items - (All of them if available but you maybe able to skip a few) - Bought in Battle Royal Dome for 16 BP a piecer (96 BP together)
3. A 4 IV Ditto with any of these IV spreads 31/31/31/x/31/x 31/31/31/x/x/31 31/31/x/x/31/31 x/31/31/x/31/31
4. A 4 IV Ditto with any of these IV spread 31/x/31/31/31/x 31/x/31/31/x/31 31/x/x/31/31/31 x/x/31/31/31/31
5. Between these two Dittos you must have 31/31/31/31/31/31. If you have 2 of the above Ditto and have additional Ditto 31 you need you can also do this method
Ditto can be found on Route 10. By obtaining a chain of 30 or higher in S.O.S Battle you are guaranteed at least 4 perfect IVs.
6. A box of female Pokemon with 50/50 gender ratio, all with two Egg Groups in a way that can be chained. (Exp, Magikarp Water 2/ Dragon, Feebas Dragon/Water 1, Bidoof Water 1/Field)
This is all that you will need to start the breeding process. I will be using Magikarp because it has the fastest egg hatch speed out of all Pokemon in the game for my example,
The Breeding Process
For each of your Egg Groups you will need two Male Pokemon with the IV spreads 31/31/31/x/31/31 and 31/x/31/31/31/31. The reason it needs to be Male is because when breeding through Egg Groups the Male Pokemon will never pass down species (Exp. Male Magikarp + Female Feebass = Female Feebass). The reason for each of the IV spreads is because for the most part you only use special or physical attackers. I will note here however if you want to breed a mixed attacker you can use a Bottle Cap to create a superficial 6 IV Pokemon. VERY IMPORTANT YOU CANNOT PASS DOWN A BOTTLE CAPED STAT. Breeding a 6 IV Pokemon is not very practical and will not be covered in this guide. So let’s start our breed. The Ditto I will be using in this example will be referred to as Ditto 1 31/31/31/x/31/x and Ditto 2 x/x/31/31/31/31.First I want to breed my Magikarp with the Physical IV Spread so 31/31/31/x/31/31 is what I am aiming for. So I will start the process by putting Ditto 2 x/x/31/31/31/31 holding Power Anklet in the nursery followed by a Magikarp x/x/x/x/x/x, I will only collect and hatch one egg which will be a Magikarp with x/x/x/x/x/31.
I will now Give Magikarp x/x/x/x/x/31 the Power Anklet and then put him in the nursery with Ditto 1 31/31/31/x/31/x with Destiny Knot. Now because Magikarp is holding Power Anklet every Pokemon will have 31 in the speed IV so I never have to worry about inheriting Ditto 1’s bad speed IV.
I will now only ever switch out Magikarp with a new Magikarp whenever the new Magikarp has more perfect IV’s then the previous one (Always remembering to give the new Magikarp the Power Anklet). I will continue to do this until I have breed a Male Magikarp with 31/31/31/x/31/31. This will not take long to do because by using a combination of the Destiny Knot and a Power Item you speed up your chances of a correct IV spread.
Now that I completed my Physical Attacker Water 2/Dragon Egg Group Breeder (This Is Magikarp) I will move onto breeding a Special Attack Water 2/Dragon Egg Group Breeder (Magikarp). This works very similar to the first way but I will go through it again.
First I will breed Magikarp x/x/x/x/x/x with Ditto 1 31/31/31/x/31/x holding a Power Weight. I will again only breed for one egg which will be a Magikarp 31/x/x/x/x/x.
I will now put Magikarp 31/x/x/x/x/x holding the Power Weight into the nursery with Ditto 2 x/x/31/31/31/31 holding a Destiny Knot. I will again only replace the current Magikarp with a New Magikarp when it has more IV’s then the current Magikarp (I will always remember to give the New Magikarp Power Weight). I will eventually get a Male Magikarp with 31/x/31/31/31/31 which is perfect for a special attacker.
Believe it or not the hard part is out of the way, now comes egg group chain breeding. At this point I have breed a Magikarp with 31/31/31/x/31/31 and one with 31/x/31/31/31/31. I no longer have to use the Ditto for this process. Egg group chain breeding is easy I just have to capture a female Pokemon with one egg group matching Magikarps and another to continue the chain. In this example I will be using a female Feebas (Magikarp is Water 2/Dragon Feebas is Water 1/Dragon)
Egg Group Chain Breeding
So I want to start making my physical attacker IV spread (31/31/31/x/31/31). So I put the male Magikarp with 31/31/31/x/31/31 holding Destiny Knot into the nursery with female Feebas x/x/x/x/x/x. Now all the offspring will be Feebas and what I will be looking for is another female Feebas with better IV’s than the current one. For this example say I breed a female Feebas with x/31/31/x/x/31 I will then give it a Power item corresponding to one of its stats (Power Bracer, Power Belt, or Power Anklet all work in this scenario). I will then continue breeding only replacing the Female Feebas with another female Feebas with better IV’s making sure to give it a Power Item every time until I breed a male Feebas with 31/31/31/x/31/31. ALWAYS USE A POWER ITEM IT LOWERS THE CHANCE FOR FAILURE OF PASSING A STAT YOU DON’T WANT.
Again I will use this same Method to breed a special attacker (31/x/31/31/31/31). It will follow the same breed process as the physical attacker only using the special attacker IV spread Magikarp. I assume at this point you understand the process if you are confused just let me know.
When your done you will have a male Feebas with 31/31/31/x/31/31 and 31/x/31/31/31/31.
Now all you have to do is continue the chain. Remember to chain only with Pokemon who have 2 egg groups because you will not be able to continue chaining only using Pokemon with one egg group. There are 13 egg groups in total with Pokemon that are breedable meaning you will be done chaining once you have 24 (considering you first Pokemon had 2 Egg groups) or 26 (if your first Pokemon had one Egg Group or you want to make sure you breed the Pokeball you want). There maybe less if you get lucky enough to get a 6 IV Male Pokemon (you won’t need 2 separate Pokemon for that egg group).
I hope I helped a few People out I will end saying this the first guide I have ever written (sorry for the misspelling I know I always have at least one). Please comment if you have any question or you want me to correct a mistake. I will end with a few frequently asked questions,
Why breed with in Egg Groups?
It is easy to get a 5 IV Male Egg Group parent compared to trying to breed with an assortment of Ditto every time I want to breed something new. It is not as time consuming as people think and can be set up rather quickly in Sun and Moon (minus the BP grind). It is also more effective because using a Power Item over an Everstone very unpractical. Save yourself some time if you don’t have access or want to use a 6 IV Ditto or can’t find a proper 5 IV Ditto
Why can’t my 4 IV Ditto have 31 in both attacks?
IMO it is worthless as a 4 IV Ditto if it has 31 in both attacks. To set up your first 5 IV spread using a 4 IV Ditto with 31 in both attacks isn’t as quick as using one with only one perfect attack. Statistically it will always be faster to use a 1 31 attack Ditto. Also there is a group of Pokemon that can’t be breed using Egg Groups due to being Genderless and theses 4 IV Ditto excel in that instance.
Help my 4 IV Ditto aren’t the ones you used in your example!
Don’t worry I will try to help you if you comment helping but be sure to check if you can’t figure it out yourself first. You want to put the stat that is impossible to get on your using your Ditto when breeding with Magikarp. Remember Power Items are your friends Power Weight always passes the HP IV, Power Belt always passes the Defense IV, Power Band always passes the Special Defense IV, Power Anklet always Passes the Speed IV. Make sure Magikarp has whichever IV you would otherwise be missing. If you still don’t get it post and I will help.
Why should I use Pokemon that are 50/50 gendered?
When you breed with 87.5% Male 12.5% Female you will have a hard time switching out the Female when chain breeding. When breeding 25% Male 75% Female Pokemon you may not ruin into a Male to finish the chain breed. 50/50 is just the best ratio to use.
What are the other fastest egg hatches?
Honestly I may update this after Sun and Moon get’s bank support so I can make a definitive list otherwise bulbapedia is your friend,
What about Trick Room Pokemon or Hidden Power egg group breeds?
If you guys want me to make a guide detailing how to do this just let me know. It is really hard to catch Ditto with the stats you need in Sun and Moon though, XY is the easiest and I may just make a guide when bank support is added.
When should I just use a 4 IV Ditto?
The only time it would make more sense to use a 4 IV Ditto over a 5 IV Egg Group Parent whould be if the Pokemon is incapable of breeding with a gendered Pokemon, or the Pokemon you are attempting to breed falls into the 87.5% Male group. The reason for the latter is because you will find that getting a Female to breed takes forever...well 1/8 times but still rarely. Before if you where trying to breed for a specific Pokeball the only way to do so would be breeding with a Female but since Sun and Moon now Male Pokemon pass down the Pokeball when breeding with the Ditto or a Pokemon of the same species. Though the odds of getting a 5 IV Pokemon will be lower with a 4 IV Ditto and a Parent that will always require the corresponding 5 IV it will still be faster than trying to breed only for Females replacements that are required for Egg Group Breeding
Where do I go from here?
Go out and catch a Ditto for every Nature that you need. There are 25 Natures but arguably you will only use 18 of them (the 5 natures that decress and incress nothing, and the natures that lower the opposite Defense are the 7 you don't need). You could further Lower this to 14 if you are uninterested in the Natures that lower speed. To catch properly natured Ditto's in Sun and Moon I highly reccomend batch breeding Abra with the ability synchronize. It will be much faster to get the natures you need breeding Abra and than catching Ditto with them then it will be catching Ditto. The only reason to catch Ditto first would be if you are interested in finding them with specific IV's such as 0 or 30 for breeding Trick Room users or Hidden Powers respectively.
Thank You for reading and again I really hoped I helped a few people out.
Have a nice day.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Hojunhu - Dec 6, 2016
Pretty comprehensive guide and very much true. However, one suggestion I might make is that when you have the 5IV male parent holding the destiny knot, it might be better to make the female parent hold an everstone to ensure the nature is passed down. Eventually you'll get the 5IV spread you want with just the male parent's destiny knot. Unless of course you're breeding for another male parent for a different egg group.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - w2gMk - Dec 6, 2016
One thing you could do which I am currently working on right now, is use your 5IV parent, to get another 5IV parent, and use them together to get a 6IV Parent. With a 6IV parent, preferably in the Field egg group, you can easily transfer the 6IV's into pokemon that share a group with the field group, like Field-Water 1. Now you have a way to breed 6IV's into other Water 1 pokemon. Then you can find a water 1 pokemon that shares an egg group with say, Dragon. Now you can take your Dragon pokemon and breed it with a pokemon that has Dragon Monster egg groups etc. Eventually you can get a 6IV breeding pokemon for every egg group. So far I have bred a 6IV parent in Field, Water 1, and Dragon. All 3 of those groups were bred in less than a week. I started this by using a 4IV ditto and a chained 4IV rockruff to jumpstart the IV train. Also serebii currently has all the egg groups for pokemon sun and moon, so if you're not sure what can breed give them a look >,>
The only issue with this however, is genderless pokemon (such as dhelmise, curse you genderless plant anchor!!) which will NEED a ditto. I'd liek to state that you should look at your genderless pokemon's stats before choosing what ditto you'd use. If your genderless pokemon has one of the lowest speed stats in the game, you don't have to bother getting speed onto it. In fact, you might not want any speed on it so you got something to use against trick room.
Overall, your guide is very helpful, showing people that it isn't impossibru to breed pokemon without 6IV dittos. You sir, are a saint. I salute thee ;-;7
ALSO to anyone wondering about passing down 0 speed IV's... Just treat the 0 speed as if it is 31. If your IV's are higher, just junk it. Give it to the homeless.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Kidakairis - Dec 6, 2016
(Dec 6, 2016, 09:14 AM)Hojunhu Wrote: Pretty comprehensive guide and very much true. However, one suggestion I might make is that when you have the 5IV male parent holding the destiny knot, it might be better to make the female parent hold an everstone to ensure the nature is passed down. Eventually you'll get the 5IV spread you want with just the male parent's destiny knot. Unless of course you're breeding for another male parent for a different egg group.
Yes very true. I just only used Destiny Knot and Power Items this guide though to teach people how to make in game breedjects. Normally I start worrying about nature when I am actually breeding for the Pokemon. It can however be good to sometimes use everstones on the parent's if you are only looking to breed a specific nature of that egg group.
thank you I am glad you enjoyed the guide.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Kidakairis - Dec 6, 2016
(Dec 6, 2016, 10:07 AM)w2gMk Wrote: One thing you could do which I am currently working on right now, is use your 5IV parent, to get another 5IV parent, and use them together to get a 6IV Parent. With a 6IV parent, preferably in the Field egg group, you can easily transfer the 6IV's into pokemon that share a group with the field group, like Field-Water 1. Now you have a way to breed 6IV's into other Water 1 pokemon. Then you can find a water 1 pokemon that shares an egg group with say, Dragon. Now you can take your Dragon pokemon and breed it with a pokemon that has Dragon Monster egg groups etc. Eventually you can get a 6IV breeding pokemon for every egg group. So far I have bred a 6IV parent in Field, Water 1, and Dragon. All 3 of those groups were bred in less than a week. I started this by using a 4IV ditto and a chained 4IV rockruff to jumpstart the IV train. Also serebii currently has all the egg groups for pokemon sun and moon, so if you're not sure what can breed give them a look >,>
The only issue with this however, is genderless pokemon (such as dhelmise, curse you genderless plant anchor!!) which will NEED a ditto. I'd liek to state that you should look at your genderless pokemon's stats before choosing what ditto you'd use. If your genderless pokemon has one of the lowest speed stats in the game, you don't have to bother getting speed onto it. In fact, you might not want any speed on it so you got something to use against trick room.
Overall, your guide is very helpful, showing people that it isn't impossibru to breed pokemon without 6IV dittos. You sir, are a saint. I salute thee ;-;7
ALSO to anyone wondering about passing down 0 speed IV's... Just treat the 0 speed as if it is 31. If your IV's are higher, just junk it. Give it to the homeless.
Very true breeding a 6 IV egg group parent can be benefical in lot's of ways. I wanted to add this to the guide about how you would go about doing this but breeding for your first 6 IV Pokemon is very much based up to chance, there is a faster way to do it but I assume most people reading the guide don't have a 6 IV on hand. If you are interested in doing it but only have 5 IV Pokemon your best way of doing so is taking a male and a female with at least 1 matching egg group whose IV spreads complement one anothers (exp. 31/x/31/31/31/31 and 31/31/31/x/31/31) and giving one parent the Destiny Knot and one parent the the Power Item for which ever stat the other parent is lacking. Sadly however doing this still leaves room for error because even if the random stat that is generated is 31 there is still a chance that the child Pokemon will inheret the bad stat that you have no control over, meaning that if you are hoping for a 6 IV with this method your chances are 1/80 (or 1/160 for a male assuming you are using the 50/50 gender ratio). Luckily you can lower this chance if you have a 6 IV parent on hand by giving it the Power Item for the Stat that the 5 IV is lacking (rasing your chances to 1/32 for a 6 IV Pokemon or 1/64 for a Male 6 IV assuming you are breeding with a 50/50 gender ratio Pokemon).
It is however possible which is the important part. I have a 6 IV grass, field, dragon, and water egg group(which helped me breed my 6 IV Salamence in ORAS). I just wish Destiny Knot passed down 6 IVs instead of 5 to make this easier. I am glad you are getting 6 IV Pokemon doing this though my luck is normally shot trying for 6 IV Pokemon. I want to add however if you just need a superficial 6 IV Pokemon bottle caps are the way to go.
Genderless Pokemon will always be an issue because they can only breed with Ditto and because Ditto can't breed with Ditto making it is near impossible to find a Ditto with good IV's in the wild. It is doable it just takes more time. Luckily Sun and Moon makes finding a 4 IV Ditto easy so you only have to have the stat that Ditto is lacking assuming you are going for a 5 IV Pokemon on the genderless Pokemon and then only switching out that genderless Pokemon when it has more IV's and the perfect stat in the stat the Ditto is missing.
Yes you are spot on with the 0 speed thing, this can also be done with 30 IVs (now easily seen in Sun and Moon) for breeding specific Hidden Powers. I wish however random IV Ditto was easier in this game(they only have a 10% chance any given time making them harder to farm). If you however you don't mind waiting for bank and have access to a copy of X or Y you can use the Pokerader in Pokemon Village to easily farm Ditto with random IV's via chaining and possibly get a shiny if your into that kinda thing. DON'T EVER USE FRIEND SAFARI FOR DOING THIS! Since a Ditto in friend safari has a guaranteed chance of having 2 perfect IV's it will be harder to find the 30 or 0 IV you want in a stat. If you really must do this in Sun and Moon lead with a Pokemon with high speed or holding the smoke ball or with run away with none damaging attacks (use Move Deleter for this) on route 10. When you run into a Dittos first try throwing Quick Balls (5x catch rate first turn). If you don't catch it it will transform into the worthless Pokemon, then switch into your false sweeper put it to sleep and throw Repeat Balls during the day and Repeat Balls or Dusk Balls during the Night (best catch ratio balls assuming you have caught one previously). Keep doing this until you have the stat's you are looking for. I think statistically after catching 32 Ditto you should have the stat you want (again statistically).
Thank you for your feedback and I am glad you enjoyed my guide
.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Marcusube - Dec 6, 2016
Wow, this is the kind of guide that really helps with breeding! Well all of them do but this is the first one I've read where you don't need a 6 IV Ditto to do it. My only real concern is when chain breeding, where do natures come into play in all of this? I understand the guide for the most part but that's the only thing that I'm unsure of when doing this breeding method
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Kidakairis - Dec 6, 2016
(Dec 6, 2016, 05:04 PM)Marcusube Wrote: Wow, this is the kind of guide that really helps with breeding! Well all of them do but this is the first one I've read where you don't need a 6 IV Ditto to do it. My only real concern is when chain breeding, where do natures come into play in all of this? I understand the guide for the most part but that's the only thing that I'm unsure of when doing this breeding method@Marcusube
Thank you
. First off with natures think of this guide as a pre guide. Since you are only breeding males for each of the particular egg groups you are only prepairing half of your finished breed. IVs should be the last thing you breed on a Pokemon. The order you should prepare a breed starts with Pokeball wanted=Ability wanted> Egg Moves wanted>Nature wanted>IVs. So for example if you want a Dratini catch it in the Pokeball you want, make sure it's the ability you want, then breed on any egg moves you want, use a Ditto holding a Everstone with the nature you want then you would put a female Dratini with all the criteria (Female Datini, Luxury Ball, Multiscale, Extreme Speed, Adamant) holding an Everstone into the nursery with the Male Pokemon that matches it's egg group with the IV's you want (Male Magikarp 31/31/31/x/31/31 if you followed this guide) holding a Destiny Knot. Next every time you hatch a Female Dratini check to make sure it has the right Ability because there is a 20% chance it won't be the Ability you want and check if it has more IV's than the current Female Dratini in the Nursery if it does switch it out making sure to give the new Dratini the Everstone.Hopefully I answered your question if not let me know and I will try to think of another way of explaining it.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Black117 - Dec 6, 2016
I remember I use to do this back in early XY back when the whole friend safari / IV craze was going about. Literally the first Pokemon bred was a Dratini with some egg moves. Back then didn't care about the type of Pokemon since wanted competitive mons for Battle Spot, but worried more so about IVs. Obvious the process is tedious but at the same time it felt rewarding to finally get a 5 IVs HA Dratini. From then just focus on egg groups with the 5 IV Dratini by going to the Dragon and Water 1 Egg Groups to essentially "chain" competitive mons. Eventually realized how much of an idiot I was breeding for IVs instead of Egg Moves which made the breeding process more tedious.
Though excellent guide you have their @Kidakairis since not many people will have access or will use 6 IV Dittos. Appreciate sharing this article!
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - Kidakairis - Dec 6, 2016
(Dec 6, 2016, 07:00 PM)Black117 Wrote: I remember I use to do this back in early XY back when the whole friend safari / IV craze was going about. Literally the first Pokemon bred was a Dratini with some egg moves. Back then didn't care about the type of Pokemon since wanted competitive mons for Battle Spot, but worried more so about IVs. Obvious the process is tedious but at the same time it felt rewarding to finally get a 5 IVs HA Dratini. From then just focus on egg groups with the 5 IV Dratini by going to the Dragon and Water 1 Egg Groups to essentially "chain" competitive mons. Eventually realized how much of an idiot I was breeding for IVs instead of Egg Moves which made the breeding process more tedious.
Though excellent guide you have their @Kidakairis since not many people will have access or will use 6 IV Dittos. Appreciate sharing this article!
Thank you very much @Black117 similar to your experience I remember the first breed I did was an Unaware Clefable. I literally tried to breed Clefable with 2 to 3 IV Ditto and wondered why it was just so tedious. After discovering how to breed in Egg Groups I finally figured out I was the one making it tedious
. Glad you enjoyed maybe I'll make another tutorial sometime.
RE: How to breed without a 6 IV Ditto - Egg Group Breeding - saturnx - Dec 19, 2016
Very nice guide!
I found out that it is easier to get 6IV pokemon by strategically changing the both parents than to have a 6IV Ditto and just waiting to get one from this proceduce.
I already have 5 6IV pokemon and 3 of them are males which is great because I can use them for breeding with their entire egg group.