Based off the title I want to find some Pokemon that are able to pull this strategy when you have two polar opposite speed control methods in Trick Room and Tailwind. I have been seeing this strategy employed at the higher ladder of Battle Spot (particularly Japanese players use this more often). Recently I have been experimenting with a Cresselia-Heatran-Sylveon-Suicune where I just give Sylveon/Heatran/Suicune enough investment to outspeed targets under either Tailwind/Trick Room. Obviously most of the Pokemon I'm working with have a middling-below average speed tier. So far I don't want to use incredibly slow/fast mons considering it might tip off in team preview I have either Trick Room/Tailwind option. I have a Trick Room/Tailwind team in mind but it hasn't been working out as planned. (I'll post the RMT of the team soon).
TLDR: Is it a good idea to have both Trick Room and Tailwind modes as viable speed control options on the same team?
hmm, I don't know how I feel about this strategy. It seems like a huge risk/reward strategy, and it definitely looks like a strategy that could work if used right. I don't think I will ever be crazy enough to try it but kudos to you and good luck battling with it :]
(May 12, 2015, 01:51 PM)podfighterninja123 Wrote: Reunicules could be a good Trick Room and then Suicune for Tailwind :P
Guess I didn't get my point across well but I not looking for incredibly slow Pokemon to use since it not hard Trick Room. I don't want to use mons like Mega Camerupt that will literally tip off to my opponent in team preview that I have a Trick Room option.
I'm testing a bulky TR M-Gardevoir but i have other forms of speed control with Thunder Wave and Icy Wind with the rest of the team. The best option in my opinion is to have a core of 3-4 pokemon which are great under Trick Room and another core of 3 pokemon which can perform even under Tailwind. For example i don't see Suicune working under Trick Room because its best EV spread consists in 20 Spe EV which outspeeds Adamant Scarf Land-T under Tailwind. If you are not Evsing Suicune with those 20 EVs, it will outspeed Land-T under TR but not in Tailwind anymore.. anyway 108 speed stat isn't really optimal to perform under Trick Room (Suicune would be slower than 4 Spe EV Rotom-W).. it would be an awkard situation for sure. Suicune definitely belongs to the Tailwind core. Cresselia can be a jolly since it can run both Trick Room and Thunder Wave/Icy Wind. Shuca Berry Heatran would be a good set since it wins any mirror match despite the speed tier. Sylveon is Sylveon. Thundurus is another jolly because it can use Taunt to prevent slow speed tier TR teams to set up but it can also Thunder Wave fast threats. And we are still missing a Mega slot :P
I'm still still debating the Mega slot option option since I want to try out slow Charizard Y/Kangaskahn since these two can help fake "fast" tailwind. Gardevoir is an interesting pick but Breloom and Bisharp pretty much threaten this team archtype considerable. As for Suicune, I think the threat of sylveon under Trick Room/Tailwind will be more than enough to force a switch out unless it wants to take a Hyper Voice.
(May 12, 2015, 01:37 PM)Black117 Wrote: TLDR: Is it a good idea to have both Trick Room and Tailwind modes as viable speed control options on the same team?
That depends...define "good," haha. I wouldn't say it's a strategy that anyone could easily pick up. Are you suggesting being able to freely switch between Trick Room and Tailwind conditions within the same battle, or are you referring to being able to have both options available on the same team? If you're suggesting the former, it seems almost like a gimmick in a way, where you have to be under ideal conditions in order to net a success. I think it requires a lot of higher level strategizing and play to pull off successfully in that situation. It can change the momentum in a battle drastically, but VGC matches are so short that I don't know how effective it would be. If you mean just being able to have multiple options, similar to running a dual mega team, I don't see anything wrong with it.
There are 3 major situations where having both TR and Tailwind may influence the game:
1) Your opponent's team wants to play under Tailwind. You can answer with Trick Room. It's the best case because you will outspeed anything for at least 4 turns, while the last turn of TR depends on the pokemon on the field.
2) Your opponent doesn't play with neither TR nor Tailwind. You can set up with the core with the best overall matchup.
3) Your opponent's team is a slow TR team. You can answer to Trick Room with Trick Room without even having to Taunt its TR setter. Your pokemon will be faster since its a medium tier speed against a slow tier.
Tailwind/TR team is a good idea, it's just one of the most difficult teams to build.. if it's built well enough the result is excellent.
Trick Room/Tailwind Switch Team Building Ideas
