[S/M] Competitive Discussion & Speculation

[Reed]

So everyone's excited for Sun and Moon. We're all excited to see what new Pokemon it brings to the table, even though we all know none of them can be as great as Popplio. We also all love to speculate. What types will the starters be? What importance do the legendaries have? Why is that jelly fish also that lady? How did they make Professor Oak even MORE attractive? All of these questions will all be answered upon release. But here's one question I haven't seen asked here very much.
 

How will this game impact the meta game?

Now whether you play VGC or Smogon isn't important. This thread is for looking at the new Pokemon, abilities, moves, etc. and speculating at how they'll impact competitive play. For the sake of not being redundant, don't say "well with the right move set and stats," be more specific. Tell us what kind of moves or stats you'd like to see that Pokemon get, and how that makes it viable. I will start with someone you probably forgot about.



What? That little... whatever it is? Why would we talk about him?

Please save your questions until the end of the lecture thank you.

This, is Pyukumuku. He's a pure Water type, super original typing I know. In a game, where Water is already the most prominent type, what exactly could this, as @naitre calls him, little marshmallow bunny do to set himself apart? I'll tell you what. Absolutely nothing.

Uh, hello? How can a Pokemon do nothing and be any good? Why did they even mod this guys, he's crazy!

While yes, I'll admit to being crazy, this is not a result of my insanity. Let me tell you about Pyukumuku's GODLIKE ability, Innards Out. To quote the official Pokemon website,

"Pyukumuku has a new Ability, Innards Out, which no other Pokémon has had before. With the Innards Out Ability, when this Pokémon faints, it will be able to deal one last bit of damage to its opponent, equal to the amount of HP it had left before it received the final blow."



Do you understand now? Switching this Pokemon in on any attack that would kill him, will so severe damage and very likely KO the opponent. If you don't want to risk taking a lot of damage when knocking this Pokemon out, you have to take your time and play carefully. But, while you're doing that, Pyukumuku is still hurting you. Do you understand how stupid this is? You can't run the risk of using a Grass or Electric move against your opponents team if they have a Pyukumuku. They could read it, switch in, and kill your Pokemon. It's silly.

Now there are downsides. Clearly you're wasting a slot on your team, but for a free and BENEFICIAL switch in. But there's also the possibility of him having a low base HP star, or super high defenses. If he had either of these, his ability would be useless. You'd be dealing very little when you're KO'd. An optimal Pyukumuku would run High HP investments, with a defense hindering nature, and 0 ivs in both defense stats. This is all assuming he doesn't have crazy good attack. It's all up in the air, but as it is now, I believe that Pyukumuku will actually be banned in Smogon.

What do you think? Post about your favorite Gen 7 Pokemon and how you think they'll impact the meta.

[Justin]

Yo, I fixed you second Image. Imgur changed something and now you have to right click images and choose 'copy image address' when sharing images on here, and probably everywhere else.

[Eckley]

Mimikyu will be running the show. What's that? You used Dragon ascent on Mimikyu? Psh, he didn't even notice

On a more serious note, I hope Mimikyu is usable. It's typing is nice, and it's ability seems useful but I feel like it's going to be similar to Dedenne or something.
I'm interested to see how it's ability works. Will it reset by switching out or will it only work once

[w2gMk]

oh man this sounds like its going to be a real bothersome creature... I'm hoping it will at least be built similarly to shuckle.

[Rogue]

OH MY HEAVENS OH MY STARS WHAT IS THIS TERRIFYING MONSTER OH MY GOSH AHHHHHHH



DO YOU SEE THIS BOY?
WHO'S MANS?
Yo legit do you see how BUFF and POWERFUL this mon is?
Walk up to a little kid ask him what his favorite pokemon is and why

---

"Uhm.. Uhmm... My favorite is rowlet its small and cute an-"

---

BOY IF YOU DON'T GET THAT SHIRE OUT OF HERE MY HOME BOY ULTRA BEAST 02 EXPANSION WOULD BALL UP ROWLET AND EAT HIM LIKE A GARLIC KNOT

---

B-But Rogue we don't know anything about Expa-

WE KNOW MY BOY ULTRA BEAST 02 EXPANSION IS BUFFER THAN CONKELDURR. WE KNOW MY BOY UB0PUNCHYOURPIKACHU HAS THE GAINS TO 1V1 DWAYNE THE ROCK JOHNSON. WOULD YOU RATHER FIGHT DWAYNE THE ROCK JOHNSON OR ALPHA BEAST 02 EXPANSION? BOY ID PICK FIGHTING THE ROCK OVER THIS MONSTER ANY DAY. MY BOY IS STRAIGHT UP ULTRA. MEGA? NAH. GET THAT OUT OF HERE. U L T R A MY BOYS.

LIKE REAL TALK WHAT IS THIS



RIGHT THERE
AT THE BOTTOM
IS MY MANS THROWING AN ELECTRIC SPIRIT BOMB?
IS YOU FOR REAL?
IS HE DESTROYING EARTH? WHAT IS GOING ON I NEED ANSWERS HOW MUCH LONGER DO WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE?!

"Has a body that's a deadly weapon to match its name."

DO. YOU. UNDER. STAND.
HIS BODY.
IS A DEADLY WEAPON.
HE FLEXES.
YOU STRAIGHT UP HAVE TO TAP OUT
ITS DONE
ITS OVER.

IS THIS MAN ELECTRIC BUG? ELECTRIC FIGHTING EVEN? TALONFLAME IS NEUTRAL? SO YOU TELLING ME ALPHA BEAST 02 PUNCHFACE IS GONNA TAKE A BRAVEBIRD, AND SUPLEX T-FLAME INTO AN ELECTRIC SPIRIT BOMB?
EVERYTHING OUT HERE DYING
BOY ON GOD IM TURNING OFF MY DS IF I ENCOUNTER THIS, IT AINT EVEN WORTH IT
I DONT HAVE THE ENERGY TO KEEP GOING TO THE POKECENTER TO REVIVE
THEY LITERALLY GONNA BAN ME BECAUSE I SHOW UP TOO MUCH

---

homeboy gonna ignore mimikyu's disguise and ghost typing and punch it in the face and the trainer using it
straight up double OHKO

best mon for sun/moon

if we can even capture it

[w2gMk]

A priority rock move sounds very very useful. Togekiss and its air slash shant keep my down no longer!

[Black117]

Definitely am intrigued by the potential of a rock-type priority move (assuming base 40 power) that can be used. It really depends on distribution really. On one Pokemon as in Lugarugan Midday form, then the move itself won't be as impactful. However if we have some of the rather "slow" Rock-types like Rhyperior, Golem, Tyranrum, and even Tyranitar, then I can see the move have a metagame impact. Tyranitar with such a Rock-type priority would be such a devastating pokemon as it already had naturally high stats and can setup as well with Dragon Dance. Rock-type is such a strong offensive typing as is and Accel Rock can mitigate the speed of certain Pokemon.

[Black117]

Oranguru and "Instruct"

 

Didn't want to talk about any further speculations about any Pokemon, up until the game launches, but this new Alolan Pokemon might seem to have a "significant" influence in the upcoming VGC and other Doubles-oriented formats in Sun and Moon. The Pokemon in question is the Normal-/Psychic-type Oranguru and its unique traits. 

Lets start off with the typing. Oranguru doesn't have too many weaknesses, except just against Bug- and Dark-type Pokemon, which the latter is kinda common in the VGC format. The part Normal-type for helps Oranguru via granting full immunity to all Ghost-type attacks. Offensively speaking, Normal-/Psychic-type isn't bad, but still gets walled by Steel-types so Oranguru will need some kinda of Fire/Ground-type coverage or partners to be successful. Based on the Pokemon description from the website, its seems as if Game Freak intended on making Oranguru more so a support Pokemon with respectable defensive capabilites. 

In terms of abilities, both Inner Focus and Telepathy lean towards this Pokemon being more so oriented for Doubles-style battling. Inner Focus allows Oranguru to be "immune" to Fake Out, or other Flinch chances like the ever predominate Rock Slide. Given how there are many Fake Out user in the VGC format like Hitmontop, Raichu, Mega Kangaskhan, Sableye, and others allows Oranguru to potentially setup maybe a Trick Room, basing this on the fact most Psychic-type have this support. Telepathy allows Oranguru to "avoid" all allied attacks, such as spread damage (EQ, Discharge, Lava Plume, Surf), and direct attacks to itself.  

Alright you all might be saying, "OK Black, so why should be care about this Pokemon in particular, as there's other viable Psychic-type support Pokemon like Cresselia (assuming its in Alola) or Gothitelle". Well the answer is basically due to a new "unique" move called  "Instruct". Let me quote what its says...

"Instruct is a move that only Oranguru can learn. It can make the selected target use its most recent move again immediately."

So what we have is perhaps one of the most powerful new support move with huge implications, depending on how the exact battle mechanics of this works. We've only seen Oranguru use this ability a couple of times, in both the International and Japanese trailers. As stated, if Oranguru "instructs" one of its allies to use the same attack, they will "attack" using the same move before immediately afterward. It seems like once Oranguru goes for the Intruct move, the Pokemon it targeted will instantly use the same attack again. We don't know if this is limited to direct attacking moves, or using the same Status move twice, but the fact Oranguru has this unique move will make it "interesting" to use. 

Just imagine having a strong attacker like ...say a Tyranitar use Rock Slide on the opponent, then once Oranguru instructs Tyranitar, now the Rock/Dark-type will use the same move again (lets not forget the potential "stacked" chances to flinch"). I'm actually "concern" if say the opponent instructs a Mega Kangaskhan to perform a Parental Bond Double Edge, so now it has a decent chance to obliterate a non-protecting target in one turn, or even knock both opponent's mons out. If Megas are allowed in the format (Game Freak just say whether they in or not), this can be a devastating core to abuse as Oranguru can hit Fighting-types with Psychic-type attacks, while Instruct Mega Kang, or another powerful Pokemon to hit the opposing target again. 

Also the game text implies Oranguru can Instruct "select targets" so maybe the opponent's Pokemon might be put into a position where the use the same move over and over again. It could be the case that Instruct coulc "fail" if it goes "first", but again its really depends on researching the mechanics once the game launches. 

Oh forgot, Smeargle might be able to "learn" Instruct via Sketch, and use it to its deep asrenal of support moves like Dark Void. 

 

 

[GiMYz]

Oranguru is the first pokemon i'd say it might have a role in the next metagame if it's NationalDex-only format..

Inner Focus and Normal/Psychic type which makes him a more than decent Trick Room setter being immune to Fake Out and Ghost type moves, it also seems tanky (i don't see it having offensively oriented stats)... let's wait.

[Vohras]

Has Oranguru's instruct ability been confirmed to only work on attacks? Could get scary if you can use it to double dragon dance on something like a Tyranitar.

I'm interested how OU will work out now that megas are likely in the toilet. Could be some significant shifting up and down of some pokemon like Lopunny, Kangaskhan, Metagross, Milotic, and Darmanitan.